Talking about your success

[kork13]

I know we've discussed this in various ways multiple times in the past, but I couldn't find any of those threads... So I'm just starting anew I guess.

How do you talk about your financial successes with others? And perhaps does that approach differ based on who it is, like parents vs. siblings, or friends vs. co-workers vs. mentors?

Background: I'm up for a new assignment next summer, and the Air Force starts that process nearly a year out... So right now, I have a couple of jobs that are courting me (which is remarkable -- it's not often that folks are actively pursued for a specific job, at least for my career field within the military). But such is the case, and I've recently been talking to a few different mentors/advisors about my options & opportunities in pursuing each potential job option. Those conversations have led to discussions that ended up touching on some topics driven by our financial successes, and the fact that we're rapidly closing in on FIRE status.

For example, with one mentor we were discussing how/what I envision for the future of my career. Over the course of the conversation, I basically told her that my intention all along has been to retire in ~6 years, take the military pension, and live comfortably off of our pensions & investments as a SAHD. She's in a decent financial position herself (although her husband 100% handles their finances...to a hilarious extent sometimes, because she wants nothing to do with it), so she took in stride the revelation that we were so close to not needing to work at all in spite of our young age (currently 36).

But with another person... I was talking to the #2 guy in one of the organizations pursuing me (so he's trying aggressively to convince me to take this job in NC). He started talking about some of the great places to live in the area, and asked about how much we could spend on a house, what we'd sell our current house for, etc. I told him our likely price point, then he started talking about the affordability with a mortgage, etc., and I mentioned that I actually wouldn't need a mortgage, and that we own our current home outright. He's about 6 years senior to me and earning at least a solid 15-20% more than I, but my admission clearly surprised him alot. It threw off the conversation for a minute until we got back on track.

I don't try to advertise that we're targeting FIRE, because I know many folks don't even have a concept of that being possible, and I don't want to come across as bragging/arrogant/otherwise. But I also don't hide it when aspects of our FIRE plans come up in conversation. Gratefully most of my family/peers/mentors are all pretty mature & don't take it the wrong way when that stuff occasionally comes up... But honestly, I'm really bad/unskilled at dancing around the topic without disclosing some details about our successes, our plans, and our rapid approach to FIRE that often seems to shock people, or maybe even make them uncomfortable, which I regret.... I have a habit of being overly honest, I suppose.

I know that many folks here simply avoid all discussion of financial matters outside of their spouse & maybe their kids. Maybe it's the dynamic of the military that drives us to be more involved with others' personal lives, but that just seems impossible to avoid because people want (or need) help, or want to learn, or ask for advice, etc. The culture is to help & advise & guide the people around us, whether that's in how to do the job or how to handle their retirement account.

How do you side-step direct financial questions? Do you just stay silent and basically exit the conversation? Do finances just never come up in your circles?

[srblanco7]

We have friends that know that we're considering/planning on ER in the near future (current target April 2023). They do not, generally speaking, understand what we have in terms of investable assets but based on the ER discussions certainly would have some level of understanding that we're in a good financial position. I've also discussed my ER plans with my current boss and my ER "why" - although he's currently in "denial" and thinks it's a given I'll stick around for another few years

Specific or detailed financial conversations don't take place amongst our friends group and I avoid sharing because (i believe) we're in a different place (both in terms of comp and NW) than our friends. I believe they are all doing just fine, but it remains something of a "taboo" topic, and I avoid offering as it could change the group dynamic or I could risk sounding preachy or out of touch (e.g., my hatred of financing cars).

[Jluke]

I’ve shared details before about paying off a house or maxing retirement and some people were like deer in headlights.

So don’t talk about those things anymore and I prefer for most people to think that I am “living paycheck to paycheck” kind of person. Some see through that but not all.

kind of like Cosby show where he goes to buy a car and doesn’t disclose he’s a doctor and wife is a lawyer.

[bjl584]

I really don't say much if I can. When people ask directly, I give a "sort of" direct answer. It's a dance for sure. Most people don't want to hear how you have no debt and are on track to retire early. Many others simply don't understand the concept, as they are so entrenched in the paycheck to paycheck lifestyle.

I posted a while back about how my job had become toxic. That is probably the once instance where I played the financial card to HR. I basically said that "I don't need this, and I can afford to walk out the door right now." She got what I was saying pretty quickly. Some people can be scared into producing for the company because they need that paycheck. I'm not one of those people, and I let everyone know it when things boiled over one day. Things have improved I must say.

So, I don't say much if I can, but I have pushed the nuclear launch button when backed into a corner.

[disneysteve]

How do you talk about your financial successes with others?

Generally speaking, I don't. Other than on this forum and the early retirement forum, the only people I typically share details with are our accountant (who is also a good friend of ours) and our CFP (who happens to be DW's cousin). Beyond that, we mainly speak in generalities. I'm not sure there's ever really a situation where specifics are relevant to the conversations. The people close to us know we're doing okay, know I went part time last fall and just went per diem, know that we're thinking about buying a vacation property in Florida. They don't know if we have $1 million or $5 million, but I don't see any reason it matters.

I wouldn't say I intentionally avoid the topic. I'm happy to talk finances with anyone who wants to, and if I felt that sharing specifics of our own situation would be useful in those conversations, I would do so. It just never is.

[myrdale]

When it comes up, I am usually glad to discuss plans and strategies with out going into exact details.

It also depends on the person. For some it's nope, no way, ain't touching it with a 10ft pole. For others I'll tell them anything they ask.

Mostly I listen more than anything else. When my cousin's husband started asking me about gold and penny stocks, my reply was "I'd be careful as I don't know much about that"

[ua_guy]

Personal finance seems to become a taboo topic as time (age) goes on, at least in my world. In circles of similar people who are working and saving, it's just assumed everyone is on their own trajectory and has access to knowledge and resources to manage their own situation. It would be out of place to ask about specifics. But sharing generalities of milestone success isn't taboo as long as it's not a flex.

When personal finance has come up, it's a topic I avoid or speak about in generalities when in person. It really doesn't come up. Sometimes with family in roundabout ways but they are generally in the same bucket - working and saving, and have plans to retire and pay off homes and the like. Some are ahead and some are a little behind but we've all got plans to get there.

Coworkers? Nope nope nope. Not my business not my problem, anything that upsets the apple cart is bad, and I don't want to know. I share very little these days and if ever asked, I just say truthfully, my situation is very different, we don't have kids and therefore our expenses and situation isn't a good comparison, and try to shake it off.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I do taxes so everyone talks to me about money. Even friends constantly ask for advice. I don't do friends taxes or help but I give pretty good advice. Now one couple that we are close to the husband and i both tell each other pretty close to everything and I know they are targeting FIRE at age 50 in about 8 more years. They know we are there now and knew we took a big risk a year ago to derail FIRE for a new job. Most of our neighbors and friends aren't in tech so they don't have a clue about what DH really makes or made or potential. It's when we meet others in the field and simliar level that they realize what we made/makinge/etc that it becomes very obvious we live way below our means and are super frugal. Then it becomes obvious we don't do it for the money, only the couple that is FIRE with us knows. And they think we're nuts. They live large but make a combined 7 figures so FIRE at 50 with 10M is their goal and how they live. So to them they don't get how we live the way we live and do insane things like give up good paying jobs for startups for fun. The husband did just tell me that they thought we were nuts a year ago but didn't say that to us. I told him if it didn't work out then DH would just work another year or two on the back end is how we looked at it. That's not the fire mentality.

But neighbors and friends? I rarely mention no CC debt, no car loans, minimal mortgage and college 100% funded by us. Nope college is expensive, traveling expensive, cars expensive, kids expensive. If I had to guess most people would say we are in debt from all our traveling, i don't work full time, we get a lot of help from parents. None of it true.

I usually tell people don't have CC debt, no car loans, and they give me a strange look. But they say yeah but it's hard to not to. Truth is that most people charge and live beyond their means even a little and car loans and even home loans. I'd say very few people pay cash for anything. I'm sure more than one figures our trips all summer were charged.

[Drake3287]

Easy answer, no one but knows but my wife. I know a few family members have an idea but they've never asked and I would never bring up the subject. Especially due to the fact that most of them live modestly because of their income level and lack of investing. I'm basically the millionaire next-door you'd never suspect was well off. These financial forums are about the only place I'd mention it.

[rennigade]

I used to talk about finances on this site until everyone became conditioned to only speak about the pandemic, and it became an us vs them mentality. That and everything is politically heated. Again, more conditioning that people fell for and will never admit. Now, users rarely talk finances here. Strange considering this site is called savingadvice.

I still frequent bogleheads and ER and if I have a question ill ask. Thankfully none of that garbage is tolerated there. Savingadvice is giving 4chan a run for its money.

[james.hendrickson]

I used to talk about finances on this site until everyone became conditioned to only speak about the pandemic, and it became an us vs them mentality. That and everything is politically heated. Again, more conditioning that people fell for and will never admit. Now, users rarely talk finances here. Strange considering this site is called savingadvice.

I still frequent bogleheads and ER and if I have a question ill ask. Thankfully none of that garbage is tolerated there. Savingadvice is giving 4chan a run for its money.

Rennigade - sent you a DM.

[myrdale]

I usually tell people don't have CC debt, no car loans, and they give me a strange look. But they say yeah but it's hard to not to. Truth is that most people charge and live beyond their means even a little and car loans and even home loans. I'd say very few people pay cash for anything. I'm sure more than one figures our trips all summer were charged.

I got in an argument with my mother about a year ago. I was telling her the same story that I've shared on here about a friend who purchased a $13k car, at 50% interest on a 7 year loan, with their total bill will be $50k. I said she should have purchased a cheap used car, or saved up until she could pay cash. Mom snapped at me "No everyone can write a $20k check and she needed the car!" Well if they had saved that $600 monthly car payment for two years they certainly could have. Her response "Well that's just not practical."

Its far more common than not that people want it and they want it right now. If you can afford it, and pay cash, and its in the budget, there isn't a problem in the world with right now. Most people thought don't have a problem going into debt, and they certainly don't understand the cost of interest on what they purchase.

I will concede that mortgages and vehicle loans are "necessary", however they should be scaled to your income. And just because the bank will approve you for $xxx doesn't mean you can afford the loan!

[ua_guy]

Maybe it isn't practical. Maybe writing a $13k check out of any emergency fund they have would decimated it. Maybe they would have liked to save $600/month for a car but couldn't do so consistently or needed the money for something else - and now they HAVE to replace their car. It's so easy to armchair other's financial situations (including downfalls, and successes), but I would say perhaps not all information is known? I agree, on the exterior, it looks like a bad move and in a perfect world, it should have been done differently. But was it just stupidity, or is it evidence of living through a tough situation that already existed?

I think that's why I avoid (in the converse) any specific discussions about success. Too many assumptions can be made either way, and then people who haven't achieved that success or are in an opposite position, failure, are likely to make personal comparisons.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Maybe it isn't practical. Maybe writing a $13k check out of any emergency fund they have would decimated it. Maybe they would have liked to save $600/month for a car but couldn't do so consistently or needed the money for something else - and now they HAVE to replace their car. It's so easy to armchair other's financial situations (including downfalls, and successes), but I would say perhaps not all information is known? I agree, on the exterior, it looks like a bad move and in a perfect world, it should have been done differently. But was it just stupidity, or is it evidence of living through a tough situation that already existed?

I think that's why I avoid (in the converse) any specific discussions about success. Too many assumptions can be made either way, and then people who haven't achieved that success or are in an opposite position, failure, are likely to make personal comparisons.

maybe but if i were asked? I'd look and see if it appears they have a big enough shovel to pay off the car loan. Paycheck to paycheck? I'd say go buy a car with the cash you can afford.

[henry90]

I think this is the most correct decision. I discuss my financial plans only with my husband because there was a sad experience. Short: if you want to keep your friends, then you should not have any common investments or businesses.

I am aware that a few family members have a theory, but neither they nor I have ever asked. Particularly given that the majority of them live modest lives due to their low incomes and lack of investment.