'Nother Healthcare topic: where we spend our dough

**GREENBACK** · 07-28-2009, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by Scanner View Post

Anyway, one of the panelists (why wasn't I invited

) made an interesting comparison of the US to other countries. I may mess the numbers up a bit but in America, we spend about 50% of our income on housing and transportation whereas in China they spend 16%.

I was distracted by the kids but I think the point he was trying to make was Americans maybe have to re-think their priorities and actually spend more on prevention, wellness, and yes, even disease care and stop worrying about the car and the house.

Good luck selling this to a country built on acheiving the american dream, or is it the Hollywood american dream?

**Scanner** · 07-28-2009, 12:29 PM

Another interesting "Factoid" cited during the show was if we were to return to 1991 weight levels as a country, we could pay for healthcare by having less disease.

I have always maintained it really doesn't matter socialized or capitalized system - if you aren't healty. . .or want to be healthy. . .it will just be an albatross.

**disneysteve** · 07-28-2009, 01:50 PM

Americans have their priorities screwed up? Imagine that. Who would have thought?

Seriously, of course they do. No surprise there. People think nothing of spending $30,000 for a car every few years but complain endlessly about paying $6,000/year for health insurance. If they would buy a $10,000 car instead, the $20,000 difference could pay their insurance premiums for more than 3 years. There - problem solved.

As for returning to 1991 weight levels, I can assure you that obesity is THE NUMBER ONE health problem in this country. Worst of all, it is the easiest and cheapest to fix, but nobody wants to address it. It doesn't require expensive medications or costly surgery. There are no high copays to be paid. You don't even need to have medical insurance to correct it. Oh, but there is that little matter of personal responsibility needed to fix it and we seem to be seriously lacking in that department.

**MonkeyMama** · 07-28-2009, 04:48 PM

Amen!

Hell Disney Steve, people complain endlessly about spending $30 for a doctor visit. !! Americans expect it free free free...

My personal experience is self insuring for health (a better deal than my employment has ever offered. I have worked with plenty who were happy to pay as much for subpar health insurance - wouldn't shop around because expect "employer option is the only option"). We also don't have dental insurance (since it's not paid for by employer - I have never seen any plan that made any sense).

Anyway, I Am quite fine with this. I gripe about the insane annual increases and truly worry how to afford in the long run (the most I've ever spent on a car is $10k!). But you know, a year of 30% insurance premium increases, and many years of 10-20% increases will freak you out a bit.

Anyway, I throw in the dentist because I have had quite a few experiences with doctor and dentist where they skipped a treatment or procedure because they looked at our plan and assumed we couldn't afford it. Then they mention it later, like after the fact. HELLO? I know this in response to people who refuse to pay a dime for their health (most). But it's really my pet peeve - it has come up so many times. My dentist kept freaking me out about dental insurance - but then his receptionist apologetically slipped me a piece of paper after an appointment and said we needed panoramic x-rays - but we could wait until next time - as she slipped me the price to prepare me. $200 or something. Seriously? IT was due that day (every 10 years or something) and they just put it off without even asking me. We had the cash for it - geez. Doctors under my health plan have done the same to me. IT just amazes me that people generally refuse to spend anything for their health.

**Daylily** · 07-28-2009, 07:18 PM

Food is another area where the US spending levels as a percent of income are lower than in other countries. This always baffles me that people are willing to fill their shopping carts with cheap refined carbohydrates. This is the stuff you're putting into your bodies people! Part of the reason our food prices are so low is because of the government subsidies. Here's an idea let's take the govt money out of food subsidies for the mammoth business farms and channel that money into health care subsidies for everyone.

Sorry if this post was not completely related to the OP but it is sort of related.

**Seeker** · 07-28-2009, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by Scanner View Post

I was listening to I think Fox ( or one of the cable chatter shows, not sure) last night where they had a roundtable on healthcare with President Obama asking a couple of questions by videotape. (probably wasn't Fox as they hate Obama)

Anyway, one of the panelists (why wasn't I invited

) made an interesting comparison of the US to other countries. I may mess the numbers up a bit but in America, we spend about 50% of our income on housing and transportation whereas in China they spend 16%.

I was distracted by the kids but I think the point he was trying to make was Americans maybe have to re-think their priorities and actually spend more on prevention, wellness, and yes, even disease care and stop worrying about the car and the house.

What I found also interesting was just for the heck of it, I went to a website and got a quote on health insurance for me, a 40 y.o male non-smoker - it was $239/month. Now. . .I am sure that's not blue chip coverage but I was trying to think - I wonder who's exactly getting crushed on healthcare - the families I guess? I guess a family may run around $1000/month.

It was good food for thought. . .maybe a nation of clunkers and trailer parks but healthy is better than a nation with McMansions and SUV's but unhealthy.

Try getting "new" coverage for a sudden diagnosis of cancer. Or try being unemployed and suddenly some accident happens to you. Or try being a smoker and then see what you'll be quoted. Or try being in an accident, losing your job (because you cannot work), and then losing insurance and paying those bills.

It's one thing to say that all Americans will hereby be required to pay for their own medical and to require it by law.... like auto insurance... but then along those lines, no insurance company should be able to refuse any person whom comes knocking for that coverage. Prices for those people are sometimes placed out of bounds as well; there needs to be control. Right now, private insurance companies have control... and we are the only country where this is a problem.

Other countries systems work. Why? People are the same around the world; some are healthy, some are not. Diabetic, heart disease, overweight, cancer, exercise or lack thereof... you cannot tell me that these conditions only exist here in America. There are rich and poor in other countires as well.

Americans pay more because _______ ?!?!?

**Seeker** · 07-28-2009, 09:51 PM

I'm adding a bit to this because it appears that I'm griping about the money aspect. I do not mind the money aspect whatsoever...

The thing I fear greatly is the fact that someday when I really need something (hope I won't ever need anything), that some insurance company will come back and say "no, we will not cover that." That's my fear.... and that should be everyone's concern with the current system.

The insurance company has control, no matter if you self pay or if your employer does. They have the right to deny you... and they have done so to many people. They find an excuse and make their money.

The insurance company is in this business because of the money. The insure doctors against malpractice. They insure drivers against other drivers and drivers themselves. And they also insure people in part (with co-pays) to some maximum that seems reasonable... until suddenly it isn't.

The costs have risen and will continue to rise... and for the unemployed, or underemployed, there's no real alternative. No feasible method of dealing with those costs if something happens because this is business. And business is in control.

Will emulating some other country's health methods work for America? I don't know.

But I do know that the number of people currently dealing with these issues, clearly states that our system of healthcare is not working.

**elessar78** · 07-29-2009, 04:14 AM

Originally posted by disneysteve View Post

Seriously, of course they do. No surprise there. People think nothing of spending $30,000 for a car every few years but complain endlessly about paying $6,000/year for health insurance.

This is a great argument!

**disneysteve** · 07-29-2009, 04:33 AM

Originally posted by Seeker View Post

It's one thing to say that all Americans will hereby be required to pay for their own medical and to require it by law.... like auto insurance... but then along those lines, no insurance company should be able to refuse any person whom comes knocking for that coverage. Prices for those people are sometimes placed out of bounds as well; there needs to be control.

People are the same around the world; some are healthy, some are not. Diabetic, heart disease, overweight, cancer, exercise or lack thereof... you cannot tell me that these conditions only exist here in America.

Regarding comparing health insurance to auto insurance, that's a faulty comparison as I've often stated. My auto insurance doesn't pay for routine maintenance, wear and tear, preventative service... It pays for catastrophic events only. We expect and demand, however, that health insurance pay for everything from an annual physical (routine maintenance) to arthritis (wear and tear) to a mammogram (preventative service) and all the catastrophic stuff, as well.

And try getting auto insurance with a few traffic violations or accidents on your record. Many insurers will deny you coverage and the ones that will accept you will charge you an arm and a leg for the privilege.

As for people being the same around the world, that just isn't true. The obesity rate in this country is the highest (or among the highest) in the world. We eat more, we're less active and we're more abusive to our bodies in general. As a result, we have more heart disease, more cancer, more strokes, more diabetes, etc. So the situation in the US is different than in most other developed countries.

**Scanner** · 07-29-2009, 04:33 AM

Anyway, I throw in the dentist because I have had quite a few experiences with doctor and dentist where they skipped a treatment or procedure because they looked at our plan and assumed we couldn't afford it. Then they mention it later, like after the fact. HELLO? I know this in response to people who refuse to pay a dime for their health (most). But it's really my pet peeve - it has come up so many times. My dentist kept freaking me out about dental insurance - but then his receptionist apologetically slipped me a piece of paper after an appointment and said we needed panoramic x-rays - but we could wait until next time - as she slipped me the price to prepare me. $200 or something. Seriously? IT was due that day (every 10 years or something) and they just put it off without even asking me. We had the cash for it - geez. Doctors under my health plan have done the same to me. IT just amazes me that people generally refuse to spend anything for their health.

MonkeyMama,

I am probably guilty as charged. I often don't offer back exercise instruction and supervision because in NJ, it's not a covered benefit when you go to a chiropractor (in most every plan in my area).

So I admit. . .I assume they can't afford it and really most often don't talk about it. It's the money and I must admit, I figure they won't do the exercises anyway. They'll just nod their head that they did and I'll nod my head and we go on.

Probably a bit cynical and I should re-examine my practices and start charging and screaming, "Drop and give me 20!!!" LOL.

**Scanner** · 07-29-2009, 04:37 AM

Try getting "new" coverage for a sudden diagnosis of cancer

Would you want to run an insurance company where you weren't a customer for years, then. . .all of the sudden you say,

"I'd like to sign up now. . .I have cancer."

Actually, in NJ, they can do that. And we have one of the highest costs areound (although the premium quote didn't seem that bad). In NJ, I think we are a "community-based" state and you can go out, be Magic Johnson and sleep with 1000 women, contract HIV, and then sign up for insurance.

I"ll admit I am one to villify ins. co.'s a lot but that doens't seem fair.

**disneysteve** · 07-29-2009, 05:02 AM

Originally posted by MonkeyMama View Post

I have had quite a few experiences with doctor and dentist where they skipped a treatment or procedure because they looked at our plan and assumed we couldn't afford it.

I've had just the opposite happen where the dentist did something in the course of my visit only for me to find out as I was checking out that the procedure isn't covered by our insurance. Well, it sure would have been nice if he had mentioned that before he did it.

I'd like to think that I'm generally aware of the care I offer my patients. I will often tell them, when writing prescriptions, that a certain med I'm ordering may not be covered by their plan and to contact me if it is too expensive so that I can change it to something cheaper. Either that or I'll give them samples rather than writing a prescription.

**Radiance** · 07-29-2009, 07:17 AM

I have a co-worker who complains about the cost of his diabetes treatments and medicines but will not give up smoking and will not eat properly.
We just want instant gratification and that some else provides for us and free.
That is not how health and healing works.
It a process, it takes a proper lifestyly and it is our own responsibility.

It was good food for thought. . .maybe a nation of clunkers and trailer parks but healthy is better than a nation with McMansions and SUV's but unhealthy.

It is!, but most people will take a desease over poverty on a heart beat!

**Radiance** · 07-29-2009, 07:18 AM

Other questions
1.- Why is healthcare free in Canada and not here
2.- Why isnt alternative medicine covered by insurance but drugs are?

'Nother Healthcare topic: where we spend our dough