VTI YTD is 15%

[EasyMoney00]

Just crunched some numbers. We were up approx $190k today. Still down but headed in right direction.

[disneysteve]

What often gets lost in all of this is that these inane actions have direct and immediate effects on people's lives. Stellantis is on that chart above. They are one of the companies that announced layoffs as soon as the tariffs went into effect, because tariffs are terrible for US businesses. So do they now recall all of the employees they laid off? What if something else happens tomorrow or next week? Do they then lay them off again? While the White House is playing a global game of chicken, regular working folks are having their lives turned upside down.

[Randomsaver]

Well i'm down 15% YTD and so is my mom. It is a very large hit. I would not want to be in the midst of retiring. This is SORR. How's it going? I figured people might decide pain is bad when it hits 30%? How long until you think people turn and say enouogh?

30% discount is great! Think about it. Those of us still getting paychecks should be happy and those retired should know the consequences if they are still 100% in. I say 3 years of flat would be great for us. Then back to new highs in 2028 or even 2029.

I felt like I got left off the bus when I bought my latest condo and the market soared. This allows folks like me to get back on the bus with the same foilks.

[Fishindude77]

Not really, especially if retiring "early". I retired last year at 59. If all goes well, I could live another 30 years or more. My mom is nearly 95. With a 30-year timeline, you still need to have a substantial stake in equities to stay ahead of inflation over the coming decades.

As a 65 YO retired guy I feel about the same way. Heck, my Dad is still going and living on his own at 94, hopefully I will be as lucky.
Blame it on the tariffs, the administration, whatever, it doesn't matter. You get periodic downturns in the stock market, but it's still one of the better places to have invested money unless you feel there is going to be some catastrophic, total economic collapse of business in America and elsewhere.
You don't have to go back too far in time to see the market in similar condition as it's in today. Can't remember what it was being blamed on last go round?

If you are the paranoid type, get into low risk low return safe investment tools like CD's or diversify and spread out your risks.
Have some paid for real estate, cash, bonds, individual stocks, income generating property, a business, precious metals or whatever makes you feel good.


Regarding Stellantis comments above:
They have huge investments and operations very near here and I know quite a few people that work there. They really don't feel like much of "an American car company" anymore. Same outfit from the Netherlands that owns Fiat and Peugeot owns them and the US plants (formerly Chrysler & Jeep) have been a mess pretty much since they've had ownership. Lots of layoffs, lots of turnover, etc., and many long tenured employees retired early, took buy outs, etc. They closed one of the big local transmission plants here a couple years ago. This tariff thing may impact them to some degree but it is far from the reason for their problems. 90 Miles from us in the other direction is a huge GM pickup truck plant. They are booming, hiring and expanding despite current conditions.

[ua_guy]

You don't have to go back too far in time to see the market in similar condition as it's in today. Can't remember what it was being blamed on last go round?

The last big collapse was Covid in 2020.

...

[Fishindude77]

The last big collapse was Covid in 2020.

Almost exactly one year ago the market was at nearly identical point where it's at now.

[ua_guy]

Almost exactly one year ago the market was at nearly identical point where it's at now.

We only live so long Fishindude... why throw a year of growth down the hole and just throw our hands up? Oh well? ...When both the downturn and volatility of all this tariff talk is completely avoidable?

[Fishindude77]

We only live so long Fishindude... why throw a year of growth down the hole and just throw our hands up? Oh well? ...When both the downturn and volatility of all this tariff talk is completely avoidable?

I don't think any fair minded person wants to see the stock market and their investments go down, but I have been around long enough to know that it happens periodically.
The policy decisions you think are wrong and avoidable, many US citizen voters happen to agree with. A great many weren't happy with decisions made by the previous administrations either, but we sucked it up and dealt with it for 12 of the last 16 years.

That one dude in the white house every four years is not likely going to be the reason one of us is rich or poor. We get one vote and we use it the way we see fit, but the moves and decisions we make personally are going to be the difference makers in how our finances really shake out.
If the market scares someone, there are plenty of other things we could try doing to to improve our income or wealth.

If you really take a look at stock market investing, it's kind of the lazy persons "hands off" way to build wealth. We hand our money to a firm to grow it and create a nest egg to our future while we sit back doing almost nothing other than looking at statements or pulling it up on line then griping when it goes down or celebrating or bragging when it goes up. Most of the big money people I know got wealthy by taking big risks and creating a business or service, working their tail off, building it into a high income producing machine. They had more confidence in themselves than they did in an outside firm and the market.

[ua_guy]

I don't think any fair minded person wants to see the stock market and their investments go down, but I have been around long enough to know that it happens periodically.
The policy decisions you think are wrong and avoidable, many US citizen voters happen to agree with. A great many weren't happy with decisions made by the previous administrations either, but we sucked it up and dealt with it for 12 of the last 16 years.

That one dude in the white house every four years is not likely going to be the reason one of us is rich or poor. We get one vote and we use it the way we see fit, but the moves and decisions we make personally are going to be the difference makers in how our finances really shake out.
If the market scares someone, there are plenty of other things we could try doing to to improve our income or wealth.

If you really take a look at stock market investing, it's kind of the lazy persons "hands off" way to build wealth. We hand our money to a firm to grow it and create a nest egg to our future while we sit back doing almost nothing other than looking at statements or pulling it up on line then griping when it goes down or celebrating or bragging when it goes up. Most of the big money people I know got wealthy by taking big risks and creating a business or service, working their tail off, building it into a high income producing machine. They had more confidence in themselves than they did in an outside firm and the market.

No, most US citizen voters don't actually agree with the blanket tariffs and the poorly managed/haphazard implementation of them. Not even big money people. This isn't just a periodic downturn, a market correction, this is real growth being erased through unfortunate economic policy.

The majority of "not" big money people use the stock market as a way to save for and self-fund their retirement so their money stays ahead of inflation and other factors. Because there can only be so many big money people in a capitalist economy...the cycle only continues because of the balance of have's and have not's.

And what do you think big money people who took risks and built empires who turned their ideas into high income producing machines think about having 20% of their company' s stock value wiped out in the last couple of months? Or suddenly having to spend billions to move a factory because the latest tweet just said their customers are getting hit with a 104% tariff?

Are you kidding me with this stuff?

[Fishindude77]

Are you kidding me with this stuff?

Nope.

You have opinions and you are entitled to them but that doesn't make them fact. This stuff will shake out over time and we will eventually see what the facts are.
Good business people and good businesses figure out how to make money and remain successful regardless of who is in charge in DC. Presidents only last 4-8 years, many businesses have 50-100+ year history.

My own family farm has been going for 115 years and the business I retired from hits 80 years old this year. There are a whole lot more bigger, better outfits out there with equal or longer history.
That's a lot of different presidents, market swings, wars, natural disasters, etc. in that time frame.

[ua_guy]

Nope.

You have opinions and you are entitled to them but that doesn't make them fact. This stuff will shake out over time and we will eventually see what the facts are.
Good business people and good businesses figure out how to make money and remain successful regardless of who is in charge in DC. Presidents only last 4-8 years, many businesses have 50-100+ year history.

My own family farm has been going for 115 years and the business I retired from hits 80 years old this year. There are a whole lot more bigger, better outfits out there with equal or longer history.
That's a lot of different presidents, market swings, wars, natural disasters, etc. in that time frame.

Has your farm been impacted yet?

And yes, leadership comes and goes. Goes, or so we hope. That doesn't mean we give a pass to what is happening in the present or the ways it could irreparably damage or alter the course for our financial livelihoods. The Great Depression changed history, as did the Great Recssion, Covid, Black Monday. I'll happily admit I'm wrong about my current assessment if things really do take a turn for the better. But if they don't, would you admit you were wrong and the facts are...facts?

[LivingAlmostLarge]

No, most US citizen voters don't actually agree with the blanket tariffs and the poorly managed/haphazard implementation of them. Not even big money people. This isn't just a periodic downturn, a market correction, this is real growth being erased through unfortunate economic policy.

The majority of "not" big money people use the stock market as a way to save for and self-fund their retirement so their money stays ahead of inflation and other factors. Because there can only be so many big money people in a capitalist economy...the cycle only continues because of the balance of have's and have not's.

And what do you think big money people who took risks and built empires who turned their ideas into high income producing machines think about having 20% of their company' s stock value wiped out in the last couple of months? Or suddenly having to spend billions to move a factory because the latest tweet just said their customers are getting hit with a 104% tariff?

Are you kidding me with this stuff?

All the big money people I know got rich in the stock market. Or from stock in a company they worked at. Did they start the companies? Nope not most. But most did save and invest and keep their company stock. Was it all tech? Nope lots of people did stuff like Costco, Boeing, Starbucks, Nordstrom, weyenhauser. But tech has minted tons millionaires. Some super young. First job out of college and they struck it rich.

Recently I was talking with a very young guy like 27 whose 10m large cashing in his snowflake stock. He didn't even start the company but he worked there pre IPO. Got it at $7.54 a share which is not cheap so he's not that early probably mid rounds. And stock worth $135/share so you see how he's been cashing in for past 5 years. What's he doing? Diversifying and bought two houses one for his peasant mom and one for him. And I've seen multitude of others in the same boat.

I figure if you hit 8 figure you are pretty hnw. 9 figures and like dh boss you are uhnw. Again sometimes things just happen right place right time.

None inherited it or made it from a business. They just happened to work for the right company and. Went a long with the ride.

[Fishindude77]

Has your farm been impacted yet?

And yes, leadership comes and goes. Goes, or so we hope. That doesn't mean we give a pass to what is happening in the present or the ways it could irreparably damage or alter the course for our financial livelihoods. The Great Depression changed history, as did the Great Recssion, Covid, Black Monday.

No the farm has not been impacted.
It's never been a get rich, homerun business, just a steady modest income stream while the ground appreciates in value.

This is where you lose me .... The hatred for the current administration skews opinion so far one way that everything they do is made out to be a world changing disaster.
Time will tell if they are doing the right or wrong things.

[ua_guy]

No the farm has not been impacted.
It's never been a get rich, homerun business, just a steady modest income stream while the ground appreciates in value.

This is where you lose me .... The hatred for the current administration skews opinion so far one way that everything they do is made out to be a world changing disaster.
Time will tell if they are doing the right or wrong things.

No, not everything. This, tariffs, one of the administration's economic policies is up there, though, along with a lot of political stuff that is strictly forbidden discussion here. I stand by truth, professionalism and excellence in government, and taking care of our poor and vulnerable, huddled masses seeking freedom, among other things. What these policies are...isn't that. And that's where you lose me, unless you've never stood for those things, then I was wrong.

[Atretes1]

No, not everything. This, tariffs, one of the administration's economic policies is up there, though, along with a lot of political stuff that is strictly forbidden discussion here. I stand by truth, professionalism and excellence in government, and taking care of our poor and vulnerable, huddled masses seeking freedom, among other things. What these policies are...isn't that. And that's where you lose me, unless you've never stood for those things, then I was wrong.

The poor can take care of themselves. There is this thing called a job.