When is too much help too much

[ninegrandchildren]

Help.. I have a 28 year old daughter who is a single parent. she is our youngest child and was ill as a child. As an adult we are always paying her way out of situations she puts herself into. In the past year we purchased a home for her and her child to live in. We put the rent at $300 a month so she could afford to live there. She makes enough money to pay all her bills and if her child's father is late with child support (which is not unusual)she can still pay her bills. At this point she is $900. behind on the rent and has had several utilities shut off. Each time we have helped her get them turned back off. We buy larger quanities of supplies so that we can help her. WE do this because we want her daughter to have a stable enviroment, but now when we say anything about her bills or her not paying us back she blows up and tells us to mind our own business. I have cut off giving her any money, but how do we handle helping her daughter. I recently found out she has been lying to us about where she is spending her money. how should we handle this? Help

[maat55]

This would be tough love, but I would treat her like any other renter. I would go through the eviction process, forcing her to either catchup or move out. I would sell the house you rent to her if that is its only purpose.

If you are in fear for your granddaughters well being you may consider reporting your daughter to some form of child services.

You may also consider having her move in with you for the childs sake and endure your daughters bad behavoir while giving your granddaughter a more stable environment.

This is a parents nightmare, I wish the best for you, good luck.

[disneysteve]

Dave Ramsey had a caller ask this very same question one day last week. His answer was that if you still wish to help (and are financially able to do so), set some firm ground rules. Make it perfectly clear that you will not pay for her bad behavior but you will be glad to pay for good behavior. And since you are the one with the money, you get to define what "good behavior" means.

Let me also say that she needs to be willing to accept your help. If she tells you to mind your own business, then stay away and let her fend for herself but let her know that you are there if and when she wants your assistance.

So what is good behavior? That might mean that when she gets a good job, you will help pay for day care for her daughter. That might mean that when she pays her rent on time for 3 months in a row, she gets a discount off the 4th month. That might mean that you match her savings for a specific goal.

Any money that you do give should not be given as cash or check but rather paid directly to the bill. Don't give her $200 and say use it to pay the electric bill. Instead, actually pay the electric bill for her. That way she doesn't get the opportunity to spend your money in a way that you don't approve of.

[snafu]

Fact is past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. Sadly your daughter has failed to accept the responsibility of an adult. You have explained she is using your concern for your grand daughter as a pawn to get subsidized rent, money, supplies and rescue. If you continue subsidies and 'paying her way out of situations she gets herself into,' you will continue to get the same results... and likely escalating demands.

Would you consider telling her that you've sought outside advice and Dr. Steve sez.... You will find this very difficult as your daughter will try every manipulation and whine she can muster since they have been successful until now. If you can be strong and carry out 'tough love,' for a protracted period of time, there is hope your daughter will get the message and take the 1st steps towards taking responsibility for herself and your grand daughter. Just keep blaming all us outsiders who insist you must change your behavior to get a different result.

[mdcrim]

You are enabling your daughters poor choices. You are no longer financially responsible for her. She is taking advantage of your kindness and manipulating you in the process. By all means, for her sake as well as your own, start the eviction process and get this child to stand on her own two feet. At some point you need to realize that she is making her own decisions, however poor they may be. And you have no control over that.

Also, since you mention she is your youngest, obviously you have other children. For their sake, you need to stop. There is nothing more frustrating as a relatively successful child to be essentially punished for making good, sound decisions while the child that makes the horrible decisions gets rewarded. I'm sure that any of your other children would like extra money, whether they need it or not. Just a thought.

[Seeker]

Help.. I have a 28 year old daughter who is a single parent. she is our youngest child and was ill as a child. As an adult we are always paying her way out of situations she puts herself into. In the past year we purchased a home for her and her child to live in. We put the rent at $300 a month so she could afford to live there. She makes enough money to pay all her bills and if her child's father is late with child support (which is not unusual)she can still pay her bills. At this point she is $900. behind on the rent and has had several utilities shut off. Each time we have helped her get them turned back off. We buy larger quanities of supplies so that we can help her. WE do this because we want her daughter to have a stable enviroment, but now when we say anything about her bills or her not paying us back she blows up and tells us to mind our own business. I have cut off giving her any money, but how do we handle helping her daughter. I recently found out she has been lying to us about where she is spending her money. how should we handle this? Help

Unfortunately you are not helping her, you are hurting her. The longer you "help," the worse it will get.

You never said what your daughter IS using the money she earns for.... but if it's anything illegal or detrimental to the well being of your granddaughter, then you should probably take action with Social Services Department.

If she:

makes enough money to pay all her bills

and makes a choice to not do that, then your "rescuing" her (even by obtaining and paying her bills direct) will not help because you can never take control over what your daughter chooses to spend her own earnings on.

It's that simple.

Your concern for your grandchild should be your major goal.

For that, and assuming that you or your other grown children might be able to take responsibility for caretaking of this "child" (age of this "child"?) for some period of time, that might be the route to take.

Some people are not fit to be a parent.... it sounds like your daughter has never really grown up.

Sorry, but the truth always hurts.

That is the route I would take if I were placed in your shoes. That is the only thing that will help your daughter come to her senses.

[disneysteve]

She makes enough money to pay all her bills and if her child's father is late with child support (which is not unusual)she can still pay her bills.

I kind of missed this when I initially replied. She has enough money to pay all of her bills even if she doesn't get her child support payments. So what's the problem? Why should you need to give her anything?

Forget what I said above. She doesn't need your help and what you are doing is definitely not really helping but enabling. Cut off the flow of money and let her take care of herself. As Seeker said, if she is not properly caring and providing for her daughter, report her butt to Child Services.

[Seeker]

ninegrandchildren,

You think you are suffering by this wayward child of yours?

What about your granddaughter?

Do you think your granddaughter is suffering now?

Do you know how much a child knows or can sense even without being able to understand or verbalize?

Do you think your daughter "cares" for your grandaughter?

Honestly?

And what will you tell your granddaughter, 10 or so years into the future?

Have you ever watched a child grow up with the knowledge that he or she was not wanted? That he or she was not loved? That maybe their mother might in fact have been better off had they never been born? Have you ever seen a child struggle through the idea that maybe they did something wrong and that's why their mother does not care about them?

If your daughter does not care about your granddaughter (her daughter), then please rescue that granddaughter of yours.

Get her out of that situation legally. Go to the authorities and tell them that you are concerned for your granddaughter's future and that you would like to take custody of the child and provide a loving caring home for her until her mother (your daughter) can get her act together. Ask them what you need to do. Tell them your specific concerns.

That is the fragile life that stands to be lost in situations such that you describe. The innocent life.

If your daughter "cares" about her daughter (your granddaughter), she will get the help she needs to get, in order to rectify whatever is causing her issues.

You cannot do anything for your daughter. She must choose and change her own path.

If you get custody of your granddaughter, and your daughter does not seem to change, then know that you made the right decision. You saved/rescued your granddaughter's sanity/life and future.

If you get custody of your granddaughter, and your daughter does get help and recitifies her own life, then know that you have saved/rescued two lives. By helping your granddaughter, you may help your daughter.

No matter what happens, hopefully on one future day you'll be able to look into your granddaughter's eyes and say to her "I did what I thought would be best for you. I cared and I always will."

[frugallife]

Like someone else said you probably just have to have some tough love in this situation because if not she will keep doing the same thing. I know times are tough for many people but at the same time in certain situations you need to just let people figure out finances on their own to "get it".

[jIM_Ohio]

when a hole gets to deep, stop digging it deeper

whether that is tough love, enough is enough, or a compromise of sorts is up to you.

I would ask if grand daughter can spend some weekends with you... create a deeper relationship with granddaughter. Focus on what you like so you get enjoyment out of life.

I would stop requiring rent to be paid
I would put the house up for sale even while daughter lived in it. Send a message.
I would also play hard ball. Stop doing something your daughter expects. Wait for her to come to you or bring it up, then say mind your own business.

I am very different when it comes to dealing with people and problems. Many people avoid the problem, or just move on, move away. I confront it, HEAD ON, when the other person changes direction, I change and take them HEAD ON again in a new direction- meaning if they run away, I follow them and track them down again. I do not let up until issue is resolved one last time.

Examples of that approach would include putting house on market when she lived there (eviction is indirect, selling the house now is direct IMO). I don't need a lawyer to do my dirty work.

Another example is to stop paying bills and see what happens (like utilities for the rental). When person came to me, I would say mind your own business and carry on, then maybe if they came back a month later I would listen.

Stop playing games and be direct and have purpose to every action you take.

[bjl584]

Too much help is too much when the person that you are helping stops appreciating the help that you are giving them. It sounds like you are there.

[cschin4]

OK. I am going to disagree somewhat on the "tough love". I used to believe in that, but now I am not so sure. The truth is that some people are simply "doing the best that they can" and while it may not be to your standard, your daughter is simply doing the best she can, making mistakes and trying to raise her child and feels overwhelmed dealing with an ex, etc. Maybe she cannot maintain a home. Maybe a home is too much, too expensive and she would have been better off just living in an apt, etc. And, if she is set up to fail and then you are fighting over bills what good is that? She blows up because she really just doesn't know what else she could be doing.
She may never "make it" on her own. The economy, jobs, etc are not what they used to be. And, she cannot just manufacture money out of thin air. And, making her accountable to tell you where she spends her money is going to just fuel the flames.
At this point, decide what is most important. Is it your relationships with your daughter, grandchild or fighting over money. This is going to be a continuing problem with no easy answer. If the house is too expensive, I would just tell her you cannot afford and you are going to help her get an apt and then go find an apt or should she just move home for awhile? My kids are in HS and elementary school and I am looking at the reality of the world and economy and maybe families will need to live together down the road just to survive.

[disneysteve]

The truth is that some people are simply "doing the best that they can" and while it may not be to your standard, your daughter is simply doing the best she can

She may never "make it" on her own. The economy, jobs, etc are not what they used to be. And, she cannot just manufacture money out of thin air.

I totally understand what you're saying, but OP said this:

She makes enough money to pay all her bills and if her child's father is late with child support (which is not unusual)she can still pay her bills.

That being the case, this isn't a money problem or an economy problem. This person has enough money to support her current lifestyle. She is "making it" on her own. She shouldn't need parental financial aid at this point. I don't think it would be cruel or unusual for mom and dad to turn off the money spigot.

[cschin4]

Oh, OK. Good points! I did't see that.

[charley_alford]

Let her figure it out. You will not always be there to bail her out of the adversities she creates so it’s about time she learns to take care of herself and her child. The best thing you can do for her right now is let her fend for herself. Support your grand-child, take him in if you like, but do not indulge her until she learns to value you.