$42,700 asscociate degree in cooking

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

Yiii. Yesterday I found a piece of paper on my front lawn. It was someone's "Student Proposal for Tuition Payment" to a proprietary cooking school that operates in my city and in another city in the South. I'd seen this place advertise on late night TV, and wondered how big a scam it might be.

The total tuition, books & supplies, registration fees, lab fees, and "other fees" to get an associates' degree there is $42,700.

I happen to know that our community college has a highly regarded program in the same. I know the community college costs nowhere near $42,700. I hope this school really does offer some sort of remarkable resources and opportunities that make it worth what?--- 20 times the cost of the community college. I think I feel sorry for somebody.

Mamas, don't let your children grow up to be people who take career guidance from late night commercials for for-profit schools

[Radiance]

Thank you Joan.

I agree, comunity college first and then more if necesary.

[maat55]

Sounds just like my brothers wife, she just graduated at age 53 with 40k debt and works at a call center for 10 bucks an hour. She said she always wanted a degree, good grief.

[maat55]

IMO, people can get a degree with no debt if they really want to.

[Confetti]

Where I work, we are getting an intern in a couple of weeks. She is going to one of those expensive, private two-year schools and majoring in hotel management. When we asked her what aspects she was interested in learning while she was here, she said front desk and housekeeping. When pressed further she said she likes "night audit" and would like to "follow the housekeepers around". Really? You are spending 2 years and thousands of dollars to learn to scrub toilets? Well done. As for the "night audit", that's what I do first thing every morning and I can do it in 5 minutes and teach you to do it in 10. She had a two-semester class on it.
The moral of the story is this: if any of your children want to go to school for hotel/restaurant management, tell them to reconsider. This is an industry you best learn from the inside. I wish she had done some research and talked to us first, before sinking money into the schooling.

[cschin4]

I think it is a real problem for young people and others who don't know how to value a college degree. There is a lot of time, effort, and money that goes into any degree. And, the notion is that it is never a waste of time or money to get a degree. However, that is clearly not true. When spending and exerting all that time, money and talent is a couple of years of your life that could have been used in another direction or lost years of earning income.
Going to college is great. But going to college and spending a fortune of money and going into debt for years and years to obtain a degree that has little marketable value comes with a toll. If you understand that going in and still want to pursue a degree you should do so but also know that you could find less expensive routes. You don't need to go to a high priced college to get your degree in Origami when a degree from the community college would suffice.
I have a young relative who spent a fortune and is tens of thousands into debt and has had trouble finding a job and is now working 2 jobs at a low wage. She may be in debt for the rest of her life, saddle her family with it and then it will severely affect her American dream of owning a home and so forth. I think it is a hefty burden that our young people are coming out from college with so much debt.
I am not against going to college, taking out loans and so forth. But, like anything we have gone from being thrifty and frugal and looking at this in a reasonable way to spending no holds barred and any and all degree is worth pursuing at any cost.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

I just ran across this article in the NYT about these for-profit trade schools. The article does not say nice things about them.

The New Poor - For-Profit Schools Cashing In on Recession and Federal Aid - NYTimes.com

[Daylily]

My first teaching job out of grad school was at one of these places. I only stayed there for a year because my conscience wouldn't let me stay any longer. Some of the students were students who couldn't get admission anywhere else - not even at the state run public community colleges which were much less expensive. One example that sticks with me is the Executive Assistant program. The school was still teaching dos based word processing and this was when Windows/Office had firmly taken off. Students were taking on loads of debt to end up in an $8/hr secretarial position. There were plenty of other examples. I later taught at a community college and it was a much better situation, however, I no longer teach as a profession.

[wincrasher]

Most young people don't really have a clue what they want to do. Many don't really want to go to college but are expected to by their parents, etc. So they fall victim to opportunists or just go along and try to figure it out best they can. Look how many universities have just general programs that freshman year - giving them an extra year just to declare a major.

It doesn't really sink in that debt is real money until it's too late.

[disneysteve]

Most young people don't really have a clue what they want to do.

That's why I'm a big fan of liberal arts education. For a great many fields, they require a college degree but don't necessarily care what field that degree is in. A history degree is just as good as an accounting degree or a biology degree. You just must have a degree from a 4-year program. So go to a reasonably priced college and get a broad education. My college had pretty strict liberal arts requirements. Every student, regardless of major, had to take art, music, history, religion/philosophy, science, English, foreign language, etc. No matter what your diploma said, you came out of there with a very well-rounded education that you could put to use in virtually any field of employment.

[wincrasher]

I'm just the opposite.

I think a degree in the sciences is most often worth the money. You study engineering to be an engineer. You study geology to be a geologist. You focus your goals and work toward them. You have a skill set that you can describe to people and turn into a living.

A "general" education may be foundation to go on to study something else, but I don't know what it does to get you a job somewhere. You're not really bringing a skill set to the table.

I think we are entering an era where to be competitive, you have to be much more specialized. There is so much more competition out there and you are going to have to be able to contribute from day 1.

[disneysteve]

You study engineering to be an engineer. You study geology to be a geologist. You focus your goals and work toward them. You have a skill set that you can describe to people and turn into a living.

A "general" education may be foundation to go on to study something else, but I don't know what it does to get you a job somewhere. You're not really bringing a skill set to the table.

I think we are entering an era where to be competitive, you have to be much more specialized. There is so much more competition out there and you are going to have to be able to contribute from day 1.

I think you could look at this two ways, and neither is absolutely right or wrong. When I was preparing for med school, I thought I needed a science degree (and I got one) but I later found out that med schools didn't really care what my degree was in (as long as I had the required science classes). They were more interested in who I was as a person and if they thought I had what it took to be a good doctor. Many of my classmates did not have science degrees. They came from various backgrounds to enter medicine. The med schools wanted well-rounded students who were good academically but could also relate to people on various levels, not just be all about the science.

I would much rather hire a new employee who has a well-rounded education, knows how to think critically and problem-solve and can easily be trained to do the tasks I need done, which may change over time, as opposed to someone who has highly specialized training but can't find their way out of a paper bag.

[wincrasher]

You are talking like these things are mutally exclusive. They are not.

Lets say you are an executive at a large insurance company. You are hiring a person for junior management - entry level position in the corporate headquarters.

You have 3 candidates. One has a general liberal arts degree. Another has a business management degree. The third has a degree in statistics. They are all very well mannered, spoken and have great transcripts. They all seem eager for the job. Who do you hire?

My answer - hire the person with the degree in statistics. They would have a key understanding of the very core of what an insurance company does.

Lets say the same three cats are applying for a similar job at Exxon/Mobil. Except this time the statistian was a geology major instead. Who would get the job then?

[disneysteve]

You are talking like these things are mutally exclusive. They are not.

Lets say you are an executive at a large insurance company. You are hiring a person for junior management - entry level position in the corporate headquarters.

You have 3 candidates. One has a general liberal arts degree. Another has a business management degree. The third has a degree in statistics. They are all very well mannered, spoken and have great transcripts. They all seem eager for the job. Who do you hire?

My answer - hire the person with the degree in statistics. They would have a key understanding of the very core of what an insurance company does.

See, I wouldn't necessarily agree. I would want to know a lot more about the applicants than just what degree they have. If I'm hiring someone for management, I want to know how well they can manage. Are they good with people? Can they delegate well, prioritize, time manage? What kind of work experience do they have? If they are just out of school, what kinds of activities did they participate in? Just because somebody has a degree in statistics doesn't mean he'll be a good manager, or a good employee for that matter.

[boomeyers]

Since I live near you Joan, I know exactly what schools you are speaking of. I have a friend whose son just finished the "expensive, fancy" school and can not find a job to pay the bills. Any job he gets, he could easily land without a degree. I have another friend attending the community college in question, and I have found her training to be much more extensive and involved than these "overview" schools that Confetti spoke of. She will also be able to substitute teach or other things like that with a 60 hour degree from the community college.