Confessions of an economy Killer

**bjl584** · 10-08-2019, 04:46 AM

It's good to hear that the younger generation is saving more and not racking up debt (student loans omitted?)

The community here at Saving Advice is definitely on the far edge of the bell curve when it comes to saving and investing, but that is a good thing.

Like Dave Ramsey says, normal is broke.

**kork13** · 10-08-2019, 04:48 AM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Thank you for that! What a crock.

XOXO,
Your friendly neighborhood economy killer

**disneysteve** · 10-08-2019, 05:15 AM

That is funny how the pendulum swings back and forth - not saving enough, saving too much, rinse and repeat.

I hate when an entire generation - Boomers, Millennials, X, Y, Z - is responsible for whatever issue is on the table at the moment. Those designations are completely abstract and overly broad. There isn't even firm agreement on the start and end point of each of those designations. And when you really dig down into the issue, there are always other factors at play. For example, I just read an article yesterday about the bankruptcy of Forever 21. The buzz has been that Millennials aren't shopping as much and that's why they're going out of business, but the article went on to talk about how they over-expanded, moved into product lines away from their core clothing like electronic items, started opening huge super stores in abandoned mall anchor stores that they couldn't support, etc. So essentially it was bad business decisions and poor management that led to their demise, not the fact that Millennials had changed their shopping habits.

Why do they write this stuff? They need to sell their papers, magazines, blogs, vlogs, etc. They need ratings, likes, followers, retweets, whatever.

**Smallsteps** · 10-08-2019, 05:31 AM

Originally posted by disneysteve View Post

That is funny how the pendulum swings back and forth - not saving enough, saving too much, rinse and repeat.

I hate when an entire generation - Boomers, Millennials, X, Y, Z - is responsible for whatever issue is on the table at the moment. Those designations are completely abstract and overly broad. There isn't even firm agreement on the start and end point of each of those designations. And when you really dig down into the issue, there are always other factors at play. For example, I just read an article yesterday about the bankruptcy of Forever 21. The buzz has been that Millennials aren't shopping as much and that's why they're going out of business, but the article went on to talk about how they over-expanded, moved into product lines away from their core clothing like electronic items, started opening huge super stores in abandoned mall anchor stores that they couldn't support, etc. So essentially it was bad business decisions and poor management that led to their demise, not the fact that Millennials had changed their shopping habits.

Why do they write this stuff? They need to sell their papers, magazines, blogs, vlogs, etc. They need ratings, likes, followers, retweets, whatever.

Yes, i read that too. Notice the bad decisions are way down the article and the young people not shopping is in first few sentences..... when a business goes downhill, so many want it to be one narrative not a wave of moves. The general public often do not read the whole article so you can hide bad decisions down in the end of article. A business i used to work at is FINALLY forced to make serious cuts as they kicked debt down the road and it caught up. Sad that those who are cut will never look and see this place has been jugging billions in debt for well over a decade.

I know what you mean about designations, i have seen the age brackets of boomers/ millennials etc change I am not even sure what I fall into anymore.

i was just appalled the article that prompted this "confession" actually used STINGY in the title. It is MY money how dare some nit wit decide i am stingy based on assumptions and BS. so far today i saw 2 articles saying ways to save or get serious before you need to work forever maybe they could pick theme Weeks so they could not contradict themselves.

**disneysteve** · 10-08-2019, 05:47 AM

I saw a great meme the other day about seeing someone at the laundromat talking on their brand new iPhone and pointing out that for the cost of that phone, they could have bought their own washer and dryer.

I don't necessarily think that younger folks today aren't spending money. They're just spending it in very different ways. When you're cell phone is $1,000, you may not be going to Starbucks every day for that $6 grande caramel mochacinno latte. Yes, student loan payments are tying their hands in many cases so a chunk of income is going to that, but they're also spending more on things that matter to them, and especially on experiences. They may not care about the latest fashions preferring to buy products that will last and perhaps more than previous generations, spending on experiences.

My 24-year-old daughter is a perfect example. She goes to a few Supernatural conventions each year. Between tickets, hotel, airfare, and other expenses, the weekend might cost her a couple thousand dollars but she rarely buys clothes, hardly has any shoes, doesn't wear make up, doesn't get her nails and hair done, doesn't have a closet full of handbags, but also donates regularly to a number of charities that are important to her. And she does fund her Roth, puts money in her Ally account every paycheck, and has a balance that would embarrass many people twice her age. So she's not just sitting on a pile of money and never spending any.

**rob62521** · 10-08-2019, 10:35 AM

As another economy killer, I think the decades of immediate gratification have slowed down, thus many places are are either closing or limiting their stores. I have plenty of stuff as it is. Right now I'm trying to use what I have. I do buy things and replace things, but I'm not in the spend, spend, spend mode. I think it came from not having the money for years and having to be frugal, to now not wanting to spend like crazy.

We know a couple who drink diet soft drinks at every meal and in between. One of their sons works for a major soft drink company and their justification is they need to keep drinking to keep him employed. I think this sort of thinking is what has gotten so many people in trouble through the years.

And using the term "stingy?" Really. Guess I'm a stingy economy killer, thank you very much!

**disneysteve** · 10-08-2019, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by rob62521 View Post

I think the decades of immediate gratification have slowed down, thus many places are are either closing or limiting their stores.

I would disagree. I think immediate gratification is alive and well. The problem with physical stores is that for years they grossly underestimated the rise of online shopping and now they are paying the price. They kept expanding and building more and more stores all while consumers shifted more and more of their purchases to the internet and apps. With Amazon Prime and other services, I can order things and have them delivered the very same day without ever leaving my house. You can't get much more instant gratification than that. No more driving to the mall, searching for a parking space, and going in and out of multiple stores until I find what I'm looking for. Plus it's cheaper online.

Your comment about having enough stuff is largely a generational thing. I don't know how old you are but I'm guessing you're not a 20 or 30-something just starting out, furnishing your first apartment or house, recently married, starting a family, etc. We are both 55 and are just like you. I rarely buy anything at this point in my life unless it's to replace something that broke or wore out. Years ago, we were often shopping recreationally in our spare time but now we have everything we need. In fact, we're actively working on getting rid of clutter and excess.

**Smallsteps** · 10-09-2019, 05:35 AM

I find it funny that so many people think all the answer is online shopping.
I HATE online shopping most items online are crap and not as they appeared or were described. Do not get me started about delivery / planning to avoid the package pirates
Everyone says the same "oh well return it". ....................Great another chore i bought for myself!!!!
I know many people who have cut back or will no longer buy as they end up with another chore to return junk. I am simply not so busy i need stuff brought to my door so i don't need to leave my floaty chair ( see movie Wall-e).
Too many places try to carry too much stuff.
To keep people they expand items that become dust collectors (clearance) or if perishable thrown out. I remember in a store i worked we had a person who would special order something, she INSISTED it was so in demand why did we not carry it? A mgr ordered a case that all went bad as no one besides the ONE lady ever bought that.

In the area i live traffic or the dread of traffic limits how far we will go to shop. Many shopping trips put off because this.
We had some restaurants we really enjoyed we moved 6-7 miles away never have been back. We talk about it then say oh the traffic this time of day whatever and just make another choice like we had moved 60-70 miles away. One place we have heard great things about but is difficult to get in and out of and limited parking so NOPE been 3 years never tried it.

A friend just returned from Italy they were there on business not in what would be touristy. They said shops / restaurants etc all closed up at 8:30 pm..... I said :so what" they said "no, they did not need anything" later just seemed odd since so many places in our area are 24/7. How much does retail waste trying to stay open "in case" i worked at many that the last couple of hours were just employees and zero sales .
No matter how much money those of us that are "stingy" could spend will change poor business decisions.
.

**bjl584** · 10-09-2019, 07:46 AM

Originally posted by Smallsteps View Post

I find it funny that so many people think all the answer is online shopping.
I HATE online shopping most items online are crap and not as they appeared or were described. Do not get me started about delivery / planning to avoid the package pirates
Everyone says the same "oh well return it". ....................Great another chore i bought for myself!!!!
I know many people who have cut back or will no longer buy as they end up with another chore to return junk. I am simply not so busy i need stuff brought to my door so i don't need to leave my floaty chair ( see movie Wall-e).
Too many places try to carry too much stuff.
To keep people they expand items that become dust collectors (clearance) or if perishable thrown out. I remember in a store i worked we had a person who would special order something, she INSISTED it was so in demand why did we not carry it? A mgr ordered a case that all went bad as no one besides the ONE lady ever bought that.

In the area i live traffic or the dread of traffic limits how far we will go to shop. Many shopping trips put off because this.
We had some restaurants we really enjoyed we moved 6-7 miles away never have been back. We talk about it then say oh the traffic this time of day whatever and just make another choice like we had moved 60-70 miles away. One place we have heard great things about but is difficult to get in and out of and limited parking so NOPE been 3 years never tried it.

A friend just returned from Italy they were there on business not in what would be touristy. They said shops / restaurants etc all closed up at 8:30 pm..... I said :so what" they said "no, they did not need anything" later just seemed odd since so many places in our area are 24/7. How much does retail waste trying to stay open "in case" i worked at many that the last couple of hours were just employees and zero sales .
No matter how much money those of us that are "stingy" could spend will change poor business decisions.
.

I posted a similar rant recently, but it was one of the threads that got wiped out during the site crash.
I like Amazon for basic household items.
For anything important or expensive I shop elsewhere.

**disneysteve** · 10-09-2019, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by Smallsteps View Post

I find it funny that so many people think all the answer is online shopping.
I HATE online shopping most items online are crap.

I'm really confused by this statement. Virtually anything you can buy in person at a store, you can order online from inexpensive stuff to high-end luxury items. Why would you possibly equate online shopping with the items being crap? There's absolutely no difference at all between buying something online and buying it in person except for the convenience factor and often a price difference (online generally being cheaper).

Just one example: my wife recently ordered a Le Creuset Dutch oven. She bought it directly from Le Creuset's website. It is the very same item as if she walked into Williams-Sonoma or Sur La Table or any other high-end kitchenware store. The difference was she didn't need to go anywhere and it was delivered to the house. Oh, and she saved over $50 because they were having a special and she got some extra bonus item free as part of the online promotion.

The problem with bricks and mortar stores is that they really don't offer any benefit. If you know what you want and can get the exact same stuff online for the same or lower price, why waste your time and energy going to the stores? Now if you just want to browse, compare different items, try on clothing/shoes, test out a product, then shopping in person makes sense. But otherwise, online is the way to go for most things. And even with the stuff we prefer to shop for in person, we often make the actual purchase online due to the cost savings. I don't hesitate to pull out my phone and place the order while I'm still standing in the store.

**Thrif-t** · 10-09-2019, 02:59 PM

I just listened to a podcast today that said our savings rate as a country was 8%.

**Smallsteps** · 10-09-2019, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by Thrif-t View Post

I just listened to a podcast today that said our savings rate as a country was 8%.

yes that is what the Stingy story said as well up from 5.25% so that is what is causing the slowdown in their opinion.

**Smallsteps** · 10-09-2019, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by disneysteve View Post

I'm really confused by this statement. Virtually anything you can buy in person at a store, you can order online from inexpensive stuff to high-end luxury items. Why would you possibly equate online shopping with the items being crap? There's absolutely no difference at all between buying something online and buying it in person except for the convenience factor and often a price difference (online generally being cheaper).

Just one example: my wife recently ordered a Le Creuset Dutch oven. She bought it directly from Le Creuset's website. It is the very same item as if she walked into Williams-Sonoma or Sur La Table or any other high-end kitchenware store. The difference was she didn't need to go anywhere and it was delivered to the house. Oh, and she saved over $50 because they were having a special and she got some extra bonus item free as part of the online promotion.

The problem with bricks and mortar stores is that they really don't offer any benefit. If you know what you want and can get the exact same stuff online for the same or lower price, why waste your time and energy going to the stores? Now if you just want to browse, compare different items, try on clothing/shoes, test out a product, then shopping in person makes sense. But otherwise, online is the way to go for most things. And even with the stuff we prefer to shop for in person, we often make the actual purchase online due to the cost savings. I don't hesitate to pull out my phone and place the order while I'm still standing in the store.

Your example of NAME brand exact item is the same no matter where i agree. i was talking clothing and other items that i was not going for an exact model etc.

I have had things arrive broken and once even had a kitchen item shipped to me that looked used.
We sent away for refrigerator magnets for a kindergartner to display her work. The picture showed what looked like dime size and ended up being the size of a pencil eraser. Need 4 of them to hold anything to fridge not what the item said / not what was pictured / or not what was reviewed.

I bought a pair of shoes for a wedding, i was looking for an exact color so it was faster to look online was a medium of the road brand barely lasted the whole wedding and started to come apart.
i bought a shirt that one side was not even sewn together ALL from Amazon . ALL not saving me time as i had to return. have returned more stuff then i kept.

Maybe i am just the MOST unlucky amazon shopper out there as others seem to have zero problems.

**disneysteve** · 10-09-2019, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by Thrif-t View Post

I just listened to a podcast today that said our savings rate as a country was 8%.

That's actually not bad as it used to be a lot lower. That said, the way they calculate that number is BS because I believe they don't include pre-tax retirement contributions. So if you're putting 10 or 15% into your 401k, that isn't included.

Confessions of an economy Killer