choosing a partner love

**TexasHusker** · 05-08-2018, 11:16 AM

How a person handles money is symptomatic of how they handle a lot of things. Certainly these questions should be asked before any plans for matrimony emerge.

Choosing who you marry should be done critically, but usually isn't. I suppose if it was all based on rational thinking, no one would get married in the first place.

On the other hand, a "lover" or "life partner" sort of gets you off the hook: Since are you are not married, there is then no divorce. You can separate and go your own way any time you like. This rationale comes from consumerism: Buy it, then ditch it later if you get tired of it and buy something else. This is why the most shack-ups end up in break-ups.

Most family break-ups involve unmarried parents

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2516347/Most-family-break-ups-involve-unmarried-parents-Co-habiting-couples-times-likely-separate.html

Unwed cohabiting couples are four times more likely to split up than those who are married, with staggering implications their children's wellbeing.

**FLA** · 05-08-2018, 11:52 AM

My ex-husband and I were both savers but he knew nothing about investing. He was 15 yrs older than me and his entire 401k was in cash. I almost threw up. But he was open to learning and changing in that way. I learned in divorce how he really was with money because he took what could've been an amicable divorce and turned it into War of the Roses with a pit bull lawyer who constantly took me to court for ridiculous things. Just his divorce was over 30k, mine was 10k because I hired a reasonable lawyer. He eventually went bankrupt from not being able to pay mounting lawyer fees despite living modestly. When the kids are out of college, I want to get a statement from the lawyer of what I paid in total over the years. I probably will die of shock. So you can marry someone who is fiscally compatible but you never know how it will be if it ends.

DBF and I have been slowly dating for a year. He makes 70k working for the state, so he has good insurance and a fairly decent pension with access to a good deferred comp plan. I have no idea how much he has saved for retirement. He is 41. He lives in a modest apt, wears practical clothes, drives an Accord from 2012. But he always alludes to having a few thousand or as much as 4k in credit card debt. That is totally anathema to me, no matter how poor I am, the credit card bill gets paid in full. He's been in this country for 12 yrs. The first two yrs were spent working at a 7-11, learning English. Then he passed the State tests ten yrs ago. I wonder why he doesn't have a house or a condo, what his debt is from, I'm nosy. Maybe he sends money back home. He is fine for dating but if it got more serious, we'd have to talk. I need to be with a saver. He might be a good candidate for Dave Ramsey, lol

**rennigade** · 05-08-2018, 12:04 PM

You cant predict the future. No one knows how someone will handle money 15 years from now. They could start off great and do a 180 before you know it. Thats the reality.

In the dating phase we see what the other person spends money on. Do they balance their checkbook? Do they invest? Do they spend a lot on clothes, going out to eat, etc etc. And even with all these things we watch...skeletons could be in the closet...and sometimes it takes 20 years for those to see daylight again.

Advice for your friend...dont get married again. Its nothing more than a legal binding contract your state recognizes.

**Singuy** · 05-08-2018, 12:10 PM

I agree with never getting married again. Statistically speaking, the chance of a second divorce after the one has gone through the first is substantially higher than usual. I believe it has a lot to do with how well the decision was made during the first marriage(ie, rationally picking the right person vs yolo).

If you were terrible at picking the right person the first time, chances are, you're just not good at it as a whole.

**TexasHusker** · 05-08-2018, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by Singuy View Post

I agree with never getting married again. Statistically speaking, the chance of a second divorce after the one has gone through the first is substantially higher than usual. I believe it has a lot to do with how well the decision was made during the first marriage(ie, rationally picking the right person vs yolo).

If you were terrible at picking the right person the first time, chances are, you're just not good at it as a whole.

The idea that a marriage failed "because you picked the wrong person" is like saying your car failed "because you picked the wrong car."

Given proper maintenance, cars are capable of outliving us all. But if you went 50,000 miles between oil changes and never changed your timing belt, then you can't blame your choice of a car on the matter. When you bought the car, you felt in love with it. Yet you forgot to love it, so it failed.

While a library of books has been written as to why marriage fails, the underlying denominator is that society understands "love" to be a noun rather than a verb.

**GoodSteward** · 05-08-2018, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by TexasHusker View Post

The idea that a marriage failed "because you picked the wrong person" is like saying your car failed "because you picked the wrong car."

Given proper maintenance, cars are capable of outliving us all. But if you went 50,000 miles between oil changes and never changed your timing belt, then you can't blame your choice of a car on the matter. When you bought the car, you felt in love with it. Yet you forgot to love it, so it failed.

While a library of books has been written as to why marriage fails, the underlying denominator is that society understands "love" to be a noun rather than a verb.

Agree 100%. Great way of putting it.

**cypher1** · 05-08-2018, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by LivingAlmostLarge View Post

I feel like on here there is a lot of experience in this subject. Can you change your partner if they aren't on the same page? Can it still work? If you could go back would you not pick your partner because of financial differences? Or did you cut ties because of it?

Going back to the original question about trying to change a person or their views, I don't think you can truly "change" them. You can voice your opinion, whether they disagree or not. And if they're more open minded or able to take constructive criticism, I suppose it's possible but not as likely. That's where compromise may come in.

For example, when I dated my ex, I knew she was more of a spender, and me more of a saver. She has two kids, CC debt, car loan, mortgage. The positive thing was she was focused on removing CC debt, but was comfortable with having a car payment for the rest of her life. I wasn't a fan of her spending habits, and voiced my opinion. I realized nor did I truly expect to change her views. Ultimately she is free to handle her money however she see fits.

While not the main reason for breaking up, but a factor that didnt help was we simply had different views on how we handled our finances. And our priorities for the future were not on the same level, so another factor. I understood neither belief is wrong, just simply a difference of an opinion.

**msomnipotent** · 05-08-2018, 02:17 PM

In my experience, you have to be hyper aware and very good at reading between the lines because prospective partners have a tendency to tell you what they think you want to hear. My husband and I talked extensively about finances, goals, and "what would you do if" scenarios. Most of what he said did not match with what actually happened after we were married. If I had known what to look for, I would have noticed a lot more problems before I married.

It is also my experience that people can only change so much, and only if they want to. I have been trying to change his financial attitude for about 20 years now. It is easier for me to work around him than with him. I have been trying to get him to be looser with the purse strings and take on more risk. I think I posted before that he had all of his 401k money in a money market account during the bull market in the 90's. Now he has decided to do a 180 and I'm trying to get him to stop spending. And it isn't just small items here and there. It is a few grand here, a few grand there, and now new cars for both of us. I'm the only one getting a new car!

**TexasHusker** · 05-08-2018, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by msomnipotent View Post

In my experience, you have to be hyper aware and very good at reading between the lines because prospective partners have a tendency to tell you what they think you want to hear.

I think in the courtship phase, both parties have their best foot forward.

**FunWeedBox** · 05-10-2018, 06:10 AM

That's why you need to live with a person together before marriage and be confident about your partner.

**TexasHusker** · 05-10-2018, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by FunWeedBox View Post

That's why you need to live with a person together before marriage and be confident about your partner.

That is yet another pop culture narrative that is unequivocally b.s. (surprise surprise!)

Marriages that followed "living together" have an eventual divorce rate that is anywhere from 40 to 60% higher than marriages where the couples did not co-habitate prior, depending on which study you read.

https://divorce.lovetoknow.com/Divorce_Statistics_and_Living_Together

32 Shocking Divorce Statistics - McKinley Irvin

https://www.mckinleyirvin.com/Family-Law-Blog/2012/October/32-Shocking-Divorce-Statistics.aspx

Discover some divorce statistics that paint an interesting picture of marriage and family in America, including gay and celebrity divorce rates.

**Smallsteps** · 05-10-2018, 01:11 PM

After reading the posts in this thread I would offer this idea.
Look at your own thoughts /habits on money have they changed over the years?
I am almost certain it has.
As each life situation pop up things change........ maybe you are comfortable now and feel more at ease spending or as people are ready to retire they may get more frugal anticipating not having enough.

So regardless if you ask a bunch of questions or live with a person before marriage, there is no solid way to predict a persons ability to handle or mishandle money.
Anyone using statistics or polls to predict life or probability of marriages working crack me up.
If people are worried about a partner.... keep finances separate.
Easier to do if NOT married but a marriage is just a contract.
I feel it has no purpose except for next of kin options or collecting SS on the other and you only need 10 years of contract for that.

**LivingAlmostLarge** · 05-10-2018, 02:14 PM

Not terribly. I was conservative financially when younger and still am. My DH was less conservative about investing but is SUPER conservative now. He is now are you sure we have enough in cash? He gets nervous about everything now.

And NOW he wants to talk less about finances. He always says things like I don't want to retire. I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to be bored. I don't want to look at our money. Stop talking about investments. I don't want to see our taxes.

I swear the more money we have and make the more resistant he is. The money he lost investing was money I cut and set aside as play money. The money I handle was all the rest. And he doesn't want to talk about any of it. He just asks can he afford to not work and not change an iota of our living? I said 5 years absolutely we can afford to live in our house and not change a thing.

**bennkar** · 05-10-2018, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by TexasHusker View Post

That is yet another pop culture narrative that is unequivocally b.s. (surprise surprise!)

Marriages that followed "living together" have an eventual divorce rate that is anywhere from 40 to 60% higher than marriages where the couples did not co-habitate prior, depending on which study you read.

https://divorce.lovetoknow.com/Divorce_Statistics_and_Living_Together

https://www.mckinleyirvin.com/Family...tatistics.aspx

Correlation does not equal causation, which even the linked articles point out (well the first one does, the second only shows the numbers but makes no declarations about what the numbers mean). Its quite possible living together wouldn't help determine if a marriage would work, but I would not bet against it.

choosing a partner love