Cutting back is hard emotionally

[Nika]

I think after "living the good life" one has to battle your own expectations of being able to do the things that you have been doing.

I have to face that we have been spending A LOT this year on vacations and entertainment. There is a red flag waiving me in the face -- it is end of the year and only one of our ROTHes is funded. That is not good at all. Of course, we could just take money from outside ROTH and transfer it there, but that is now how this should work. It is supposed to be new money.

Overall, our retirement accounts went up rather nicely this year, due to market doing well. Non-retirement did not fare as well (I was heavy on AAPL).

But we are treading water when it comes to new savings.
I want to enjoy life best we can, not everything is "for later", but a ROTH is a clear line in the sand.

But when faced with each individual purchase or booking a vacation, it is really an emotional struggle to say no to a life you are used to. I want this new lululemon running jacket. I do need to replace my running shoes that have a lot of miles on them. Our annual ski vacation is a family tradition we really look forward to. This thing is on a massive sale and when will I have an opportunity to get it at that price? We have an evening off, and would enjoy going out as a family... all of these are non-stop. And none of them individually is a big deal.
It is easy to be wise in theory. Implementation, however...

[TBH]

I'm right there with you.

[TheKayla]

It was for me as well. I was never that over the top with spending, but I most certainly had to cut back tremendously to meet my debt payoff goals. I've been at it for a few years, and while sometimes I get frustrated that I can't buy that cute $30 dress on a whim, I feel as though I've changed in so many ways for the better. I've also discovered new ways to keep frugal (by my own willpower), that now no longer bother me. I've found natural alternatives to clean, new ways of doing things, simpler and cheaper ways of staying healthy (vegetables and exercise > regular doctor/chiro visits and processed 'health food'), learned how to do more things for myself. All resulting in more money in my pocket, but also a way of doing things that I've discovered and preferred.

These days I'd much rather go backpacking through Europe someday because I genuinely feel as though it would be a much more rewarding experience, rather than staying in a classy hotel as an experience. It's amazing how your mindset changes when you get back to basics! Keep thinking of the good it's done (not just in reaching your goals) but how much you've changed and your habits have changed for the better as a result of saving more.

[Alexandre Mancini]

Hi Nika,

I understand what you're going through emotionally.

Maybe if you answer a couple of questions for yourself it can help you. Do you realize that you have the chance to live in a country where you have a disposable income, that means after you work and paid for your food and mortgage (or rent), you STILL have money in your pocket to do other things?

Do you think this will always be the case? Did you know the real rate of inflation (not official ***) is 8%? That means it may be the last couple of years you will have extra money to build your wealth and protect your family. Do you really want to spend this?

What I suggest If you really need to respect the ski tradition, is to ask yourself "How can I generate more money to pay for this trip?" instead of using your work money. Try to involve the family, to make this like a challenge. You will all learn invaluable emotional skills through this thinking process.

[disneysteve]

I think this highlights the wisdom of "Pay yourself first." After the true necessities (food, utilities, basic clothing, health care) the next item on the budget needs to be savings. Each paycheck, you need to fund the savings BEFORE any discretionary spending happens. The Roth limit is $5,500 (if you're under 50) so that's $11,000/year or $916.66/month. Starting January 1, make sure that $916.66 goes to your Roth accounts every month without fail. If possible, set it up as an automatic transfer so that you're sure it happens. You then get to live on what remains. That might mean a new jacket has to wait or a vacation can't happen quite yet or at least needs to be scaled back a bit but that's okay. Savings comes first.

Assuming your income allows, you can still buy nice things and take vacations and go out to eat. You just need to do it within the boundaries of what money exists after you fund retirement.

[rennigade]

Ditch the lululemon crap. That silly upside down horseshoe lookin thing on the clothes will not help you work out any better than cheaper not as flattering jogging pants...not to mention that silly symbol adds about $50 to a pair of yoga pants. If you need to look pretty while exercising then you're missing the point.

For shoes...hit up REI's garage sale. I just picked up 3 pairs of brooks for $34/each...regular price $120/each. They didnt even look like they were worn. For those who have an REI nearby...check into this sale. It happens about once a month.

We travel a lot too but we also max our 401's and Roth's. Remember...dont keep up with the Jones...they're in debt!

[mollardr1]

We all go through those phases

Nika, I think everyone goes through those mental steps at least a couple times a year. Christmas is always a time when we struggle with our finances... presents.. travel... food.. it all adds up. One thing that we have done has been to replace some things that we wanted to do with cheaper alternatives. That way we can still go out and do something and dont feel like we have to chop down our lifestyle completely. It is a process you have to slowly go through.

[Nika]

Ditch the lululemon crap. That silly upside down horseshoe lookin thing on the clothes will not help you work out any better than cheaper not as flattering jogging pants...not to mention that silly symbol adds about $50 to a pair of yoga pants. If you need to look pretty while exercising then you're missing the point.

It does motivate me. I love flattering, nice looking, pretty workout clothing in beautiful colors. I spend a lot of time, money and effort getting my body to look this way, and I do want to show it off. And that clothing shows off every curve and muscle on your body.

Maybe if you answer a couple of questions for yourself it can help you. Do you realize that you have the chance to live in a country where you have a disposable income, that means after you work and paid for your food and mortgage (or rent), you STILL have money in your pocket to do other things?

Do you think this will always be the case? Did you know the real rate of inflation (not official ***) is 8%? That means it may be the last couple of years you will have extra money to build your wealth and protect your family. Do you really want to spend this?

Threat of rampant inflation is an argument to NOT save money. Because if I spend it, I get a a higher value for it now, than later, after it is eroded by inflation. I still want to have savings, just in case worst case scenario won't happen. But in countries where currency suffered as a result of inflation, default or devaluation, savings evaporated to nothing and those who spent every single dime they had ended up being better off. So prediction of economic doom and gloom is not always a great argument for increasing savings.

Disneysteve, we have been maxing out ROTHes without fail, ever since we got our real full time jobs after school. If we used your method, which is great in theory, but does not allow for much flexibility, we would have missed out on a lot of experiences. We somehow managed to fund our ROTHes without so much discipline. But this year we are really cutting it close. Furlough and sequester cost our family a lot of money too, not just in pay cut, but in other ways.

I'm taking my own lunch to work sometimes now, and even make my own coffee at the office. (things that do not diminish my quality of life). So my breakfast of coffee and a doughnut that used to be like $7.75 is now just 1 doughnut ($3.25) and coffee, while about 14.99lb is still cheaper than ready made. Still, I didn't drink 11K worth of coffee a year to begin with.

I will also start tracking all my spending starting January. December is a LOT of tips and gifts expected of us, so that will look very ugly.

[disneysteve]

I spend a lot of time, money and effort getting my body to look this way

my breakfast of coffee and a doughnut

1 doughnut ($3.25).

You spend a lot of time and effort working out and getting your body the way you want it but you eat a doughnut for breakfast? You might want to consider a healthier meal. Just the doctor in me thinking out loud here.

And where do you go where they charge $3.25 for one doughnut. That's insane.

[Nika]

You spend a lot of time and effort working out and getting your body the way you want it but you eat a doughnut for breakfast? You might want to consider a healthier meal. Just the doctor in me thinking out loud here.

And where do you go where they charge $3.25 for one doughnut. That's insane.

A place in Grand Central sells Doughnut Plant's coconut cream doughnuts. It is my obsession. It brightens up my morning commute. They are not comparable to some crappy Dunkin Doughnuts (that I would not eat even if they were free). These are fresh, no preservatives, delicious, sold out by 9 am each morning, cream filled pieces of bliss. $3.25 is the lowest price for Doughnut Plant's doughnuts, btw. It is $4+ for the same one in some other places. But if I am going to consume what I estimate is 500 nutritionally poor calories, they better be the most enjoyable calories out there.

I eat healthy lunch and dinner (unless we go out). I work out on average 4 times a week, strength training with a personal trainer, running on my own, and taking variety of cardio classes.

So yes, it is possible to have a doughnut every day and still be fit and slim. Healthy lifestyle is not an all or nothing proposition.

[disneysteve]

if I am going to consume what I estimate is 500 nutritionally poor calories, they better be the most enjoyable calories out there.

This is actually a mindset that has helped me lose weight and keep it off. I ask myself, "Are these calories worth it?" Rather than eating anything that's in front of me, I'm more selective about which junk I put it my mouth. The result is I eat less junk but I enjoy it more.

Healthy lifestyle is not an all or nothing proposition.

That's true to an extent but you do still need to consider the effect the junk food has on your body, even if you don't see it on the scale. You may be able to "exercise off" the calories of that doughnut but your body still gets the sugar and fat content which may contribute to clogged arteries and other long term health issues.

Not to say I'm a saint by any means. I love my sweets and do my best to limit them, sometimes more successfully than other times.

[Nika]

This is actually a mindset that has helped me lose weight and keep it off. I ask myself, "Are these calories worth it?" Rather than eating anything that's in front of me, I'm more selective about which junk I put it my mouth. The result is I eat less junk but I enjoy it more.


That's true to an extent but you do still need to consider the effect the junk food has on your body, even if you don't see it on the scale. You may be able to "exercise off" the calories of that doughnut but your body still gets the sugar and fat content which may contribute to clogged arteries and other long term health issues.

Not to say I'm a saint by any means. I love my sweets and do my best to limit them, sometimes more successfully than other times.

Besides the scale, all my stats are stellar -- cholesterol, blood sugar, triglycerides. So my body seems to process fat and sugar well. I also eat a lot of unsaturated fats. And I have a good amount of lean muscle mass.

And while I love that doughnut and Lady M green tea crepe cake (and a Belgian dessert place nearby) I try to limit sugar in other places. I rarely eat pastas or pizza (maybe once a month), almost never cereals or white rice(very rarely brown either), never high-sugar yogurts or processed "health foods" . My sides to my protein are usually veggies, legumes mixed with squashes, roots, variety of leafy greens...

[disneysteve]

Besides the scale, all my stats are stellar -- cholesterol, blood sugar, triglycerides. So my body seems to process fat and sugar well. I also eat a lot of unsaturated fats. And I have a good amount of lean muscle mass.

And while I love that doughnut and Lady M green tea crepe cake (and a Belgian dessert place nearby) I try to limit sugar in other places. I rarely eat pastas or pizza (maybe once a month), almost never cereals or white rice(very rarely brown either), never high-sugar yogurts or processed "health foods" . My sides to my protein are usually veggies, legumes mixed with squashes, roots, variety of leafy greens...

Now if only I could get all of my patients to do the same.

[bigdaddybus]

I have nothing benifical to add, just wanted to say that Nika's comments about her favorite donut sounds alot like what my wife would say. (my wifes favorite is a 600 calorie oversized chocolate chip muffin btw)
My wife runs 110-130 miles a month to stay a size 2. She looks great, but works out alot to eat and drink (she likes her dry red wines) whatever and whenever she wants.


So I'll just end with "You go girl!" Your doing better than I am.

[Nika]

Now if only I could get all of my patients to do the same.

Ow, thank you. But you would not make much money than. The only times I see my doctor is for an annual physical, and when I have a minor cold and need a note to stay home to take care of my child (who has a more difficult time with that same cold).

But I think the root of the problem with majority of your patients is that they really, honestly not understand what healthy living involves. They learn what they know from TV that tells them to cut out everything they like and eat specially marked "healthy" sugar laden diet products. That to be size 2 you have to subsist on carrot sticks. That a pop tart or a cereal is a nutritious breakfast, that Nutella is made primarily of hazelnuts and milk (and not mostly palm oil). People think that a Ceasar salad is a nutritious healthy choice...

They honestly try it, mobilizing willpower, and of course, fail, because you can't eat like that and be full, happy, and get enough nutrition, so it is not sustainable forever.
I have shocked co-workers by putting half and half into my coffee. "But it has FAT!!!" was their reaction. (Especially as it is nonhomogenized, so they can see fat particles floating on top, until they dissolve).

But really, people have very little understanding of nutrition, and it is a rather complex subject. It took a while for us to arrive to this point, and we live in a city that is more progressive, educated, health conscious and eats better than majority of the country.

I got side-tracked again, once we touched this subject. I feel passionate about it.