Sacrificing for kids

[Gailete]

One of the interesting things I would like to see is how many parents that stay together during their children's growing up years as opposed to those who got divorced along the way, which parents were able to contribute the most to college? In the Millionaire Next Door I think the authors mentioned that couples that stayed together had more money in the long run than couples that separated. Separation and divorce has a paralyzing effect on family finances. It makes a big difference whether or not a couple can provide for college or private schools and those that don't. I get the feeling that many on this board are still with original spouses and so ideas and plans can be worked on and carried out over the years.

My husband's college was fully funded by his parents (married 60 years now) and I worked my way through college (parents divorced when I was ~10 and then stepfather was disabled within 6 months of mom getting remarried several years later). Even though his family didn't have a LOT of money they had what it took to provide for their kids, while ours was scrambling for money my entire growing up years. For the most part, anything to do with going to college was earned by me, or subsidized by SS (because of stepfather's disability although SS doesn't give benefits to older kids in college anymore) and donations from friends. When it came time to send my boys to college, the oldest didn't want to go so when he finally did start in taking classes he was already married and did it on his nickel and credit cards. Youngest son wasn't at all ready to go away to college (autistic) but several years alter decided he wanted to go to trade school and he did everything on his own from application to taking out loans which was an education in itself. He is paying ahead on his loans currently. Would I have liked to help them out? Yes, but at the point in time that they were ready for college, I ended up on disability and had many financial difficulties for the next few years. Life happens. Am I a bad mother for not paying for their college and further education? I don't think so as I did teach them important living skills. I just think we can't condemn any family for the choices that they make about school and collage as each family has their own private financial problems and responsibilities and philosophy about what is best for their kids.

[disneysteve]

One of the interesting things I would like to see is how many parents that stay together during their children's growing up years as opposed to those who got divorced along the way, which parents were able to contribute the most to college? In the Millionaire Next Door I think the authors mentioned that couples that stayed together had more money in the long run than couples that separated. Separation and divorce has a paralyzing effect on family finances. It makes a big difference whether or not a couple can provide for college or private schools and those that don't. I get the feeling that many on this board are still with original spouses and so ideas and plans can be worked on and carried out over the years.

Absolutely true. Marrying the wrong person is a very costly mistake from a financial standpoint.

And yes, I'm with my first and only spouse, as is my wife. Friday is our 21st anniversary!

[Gailete]

Happy anniversary Steve!

[~bs]

One of the interesting things I would like to see is how many parents that stay together during their children's growing up years as opposed to those who got divorced along the way, which parents were able to contribute the most to college? In the Millionaire Next Door I think the authors mentioned that couples that stayed together had more money in the long run than couples that separated. Separation and divorce has a paralyzing effect on family finances. It makes a big difference whether or not a couple can provide for college or private schools and those that don't. I get the feeling that many on this board are still with original spouses and so ideas and plans can be worked on and carried out over the years.

I remember reading statistics that, from a financial standpoint, married once people with no kids have the greatest financial wealth, followed by married with kids, followed by single never married, followed by single/married divorced at least once.

The reason why married couples tend to accumulate more over their lifetime is simple: shared costs. 2 people of the same status have double the income, but not double the expenses. A couple making $50k each could live on 1 salary and save the second, while a single person making $50k each needs to spend and save within on that single salary. Also, if a single person gets laid off, it's far more devastating than a husband getting laid off in a dual income household simply because that second income acts as a safety net.

[disneysteve]

Also, if a single person gets laid off, it's far more devastating than a husband getting laid off in a dual income household simply because that second income acts as a safety net.

This is true only if the couple is smart and keeps costs under control and banks the 2nd salary. Of course, most couples don't do that. Instead they elevate their lifestyle to match their income and then they're really screwed when one person loses a job or gets sick and can't work.

There was a book a while ago called The Two-Income Trap by Elizabeth Warren and her daughter. It is a great read on this topic.

[Gailete]

The reason why married couples tend to accumulate more over their lifetime is simple: shared costs

Actually it is something more basic than that I believe. When you get divorced assets that you may have had together get halved (in community property states), lawyer fees to pay, child support or alimony to pay. It can take years to get over that financial fiasco. Then you are living on one paycheck and the problems involved with that as you mentioned. Couples that stay together can work together (if they choose as most people do here). When hubby and I got married 11 years ago, he was self employed and I was working full time as a nurse. Just weeks after the wedding, I was hit with a virus that left me with severe arthritis. Suddenly into the mix was thrown doctor bills, no paychecks for me after my short term disability ran out after 6 months. We went over two years without any income coming in for me. But even though things have been tough, we have tried to be smart about our finances and since both of us recognized that we didn't have a lot, we didn't spend a lot. Between life settling into somewhat of a normal pattern now for us finally, hubby switching concentration of his job a bit and earning more cash during the year, we are finally at the place, that at least for now, we actually have a cash reserve . We have money set aside for bills that will be coming later in the year, we have put money into retirement accounts and money into a stock account. I see what life COULD have been like financially if I had married him first! We will never be able to make up for the bad years that we had in life, but we can plan for the future together. My stress level has gone way down.

But this is one of the reasons that I caution some of the young readers here who are just so sure that they can convince their significant other to be more financially savvy. There are just some people that won't learn their lessons about money and will not only drag themselves down but others with them, same if you find that significant other is hiding financial details from you. Things like that. So much better for both to be on the same side when it comes to finances in the first place, don't expect the other to change. It seems like if a couple is smart about what they do with their finances and their choice of mates, unless a true tragedy hits, there is no reason that by retirement time most of them will have a million or more set aside no matter what their income had been over the years.

[Nika]

If people think that 10K for a private school is expensive, how do they even afford daycare -- 2K+ per month in NYC.

If I could, I would love to be able to send LO to a fantastic charter school near us. But at 40K per year, that is not in our reach.

But I do see why people stretch to pay for their kids private school, tennis lessons, college... They see their kids peers getting these things and want the child to have the advantages other kids are having.

And having a choice of colleges, SAT prep courses, being in a safe and academically strong school -- those things matter. Even starting your adult life without (or with minimal student loan debt matters).

So, I can see why parents stretch.

There are of course, examples of people just not thinking things through. Like the woman I know who makes very little money hiring a tutor for her 3rd grader to bring up her grades from near failing. She paid something like 2K and she is deeply in debt as it is. The child is in the 3rd grade, she should be able to tutor her herself! It is not unified field theory, it is just algebra.

[ThriftoRama]

Sacrifices, yes. But smart sacrifices. At the end of the day, you need to have your own house in order or else you are doing your children a disservice.

We have two kids, 3 and 5, and as a result, we have
- moved, from a smaller to a slightly larger house. The move took us from a failing urban school district to a premier school district, all in the same city. It cost more for the new house, but not that much more. We did the math, and it's cheaper than paying for private school for two kids.
- We save for college, about 200 a month for each of them, and plan to pay for all of their undergrad using this savings and future earnings. To help with that, we are paying down the mortgage early, and will have it paid off in about 5 years. It will free up money for savings
- We never stopped saving for retirement. What good is it to your children if they have to support you in your old age, likely at a time when they have reduced income and greater expenses because they have their own kids? No thanks!

To lower the preschool bills, I freelance and work from home instead of working in an office. It is very difficult, but will get easier when the children are both in school all day. And, at that point, my income will be close to what it was when I worked full time. I will also have the flexibility to deal with sick/snow days, holiday breaks, and all that.

So yes, sacrifice, but use your brain. Tell your aunts that their way isn't the only way. I've had to hush my MIL several times because we didn't do things the same way she did. well, she had her chance to parent. Now it's ours. The world has changed.

[Blessed]

One of the interesting things I would like to see is how many parents that stay together during their children's growing up years as opposed to those who got divorced along the way, which parents were able to contribute the most to college? In the Millionaire Next Door I think the authors mentioned that couples that stayed together had more money in the long run than couples that separated. Separation and divorce has a paralyzing effect on family finances. It makes a big difference whether or not a couple can provide for college or private schools and those that don't. I get the feeling that many on this board are still with original spouses and so ideas and plans can be worked on and carried out over the years.

My husband's college was fully funded by his parents (married 60 years now) and I worked my way through college (parents divorced when I was ~10 and then stepfather was disabled within 6 months of mom getting remarried several years later). Even though his family didn't have a LOT of money they had what it took to provide for their kids, while ours was scrambling for money my entire growing up years. For the most part, anything to do with going to college was earned by me, or subsidized by SS (because of stepfather's disability although SS doesn't give benefits to older kids in college anymore) and donations from friends. When it came time to send my boys to college, the oldest didn't want to go so when he finally did start in taking classes he was already married and did it on his nickel and credit cards. Youngest son wasn't at all ready to go away to college (autistic) but several years alter decided he wanted to go to trade school and he did everything on his own from application to taking out loans which was an education in itself. He is paying ahead on his loans currently. Would I have liked to help them out? Yes, but at the point in time that they were ready for college, I ended up on disability and had many financial difficulties for the next few years. Life happens. Am I a bad mother for not paying for their college and further education? I don't think so as I did teach them important living skills. I just think we can't condemn any family for the choices that they make about school and collage as each family has their own private financial problems and responsibilities and philosophy about what is best for their kids.

You did the best thing I think a parent can do for their child. You taught them to stand on their own two feet as responsible adults. My mom once told me this is when you know you made it as a parent.

I do think for us it has been easier as a long term married couple. We have never had 2 full time incomes or even a large income. I am thankful I have had the time to be a major planner and do the things that save us money in the long run. Planning and being frugal has been our saving grace.

[Gailete]

Planning and being frugal has been our saving grace

That is huge, which is why it is so important for a couple to both be on the same page when it comes to finances, not one taking the other screaming and fighting down that path.

[shaggy]

Actually it is something more basic than that I believe. When you get divorced assets that you may have had together get halved (in community property states), lawyer fees to pay, child support or alimony to pay. It can take years to get over that financial fiasco. Then you are living on one paycheck and the problems involved with that as you mentioned. Couples that stay together can work together (if they choose as most people do here).

All of this may be true, but the costs of my divorce are still outweighed by the costs of staying with someone who was going to be forever entitled to 50% of my income.

Financially I came out ahead by getting divorced.

[disneysteve]

The child is in the 3rd grade, she should be able to tutor her herself! It is not unified field theory, it is just algebra.

They're studying algebra in 3rd grade? Isn't that usually when they are first covering things like multiplication and long division?

[Gailete]

They're studying algebra in 3rd grade? Isn't that usually when they are first covering things like multiplication and long division?

I was wondering about that too. When I homeschooled my one boy for eighth grade we were doing algebra then.

All of this may be true, but the costs of my divorce are still outweighed by the costs of staying with someone who was going to be forever entitled to 50% of my income.

Financially I came out ahead by getting divorced.

I came out with more than that. I came out with my sanity. My first husband was seriously mentally ill from a family that felt it was in his best interests to cover up and hide things from me. I was suspecting something was wrong by our wedding, but being young and naïve I went ahead with it anyhow. After 13 years of marriage, my ex still wouldn't even trust me to take his paycheck to the bank to cash it for him as he was scared I would steal the money so he had his mom do it for him. I never stole a nickel from him and that was his own fantasy that thought that up, but obviously we weren't working together on our financial lives when he didn't trust me at all with anything. So nice to no longer be blamed for his problems by his side of the family. Many reasons for a divorce and no one can see what goes on within a private home. I do know that the more you and your significant other are on the same page on things like finances and other issues, the better things can go. Just because 'opposites attract' doesn't mean we should marry that person.

[bennkar]

All of this may be true, but the costs of my divorce are still outweighed by the costs of staying with someone who was going to be forever entitled to 50% of my income.

Financially I came out ahead by getting divorced.

I have to agree with this one. For most people divorce can be bad, but for me as well, financially it was the best thing to happen to me. The first few years it was worse for me, but that quickly flipped and I have never looked back.

[Freddy McFrugal]

I'm a teacher. I have taught at an expensive private school in Manhattan. In my experience, students' success in school tends to come from their attitudes towards learning and the effort the students put in. That comes from parents.

Bad schools can hold a good kid back. It has a lot to do with who their classmates are. Be careful, though. See where grads are going. IMO, outcomes are the only real measure of quality. Expensive doesn't necessarily equal good.