Early "Retirement" thoughts

[Blessed]

I say do what makes you two happy as a couple. The rest of the world doesn't matter! I find it odd that it seems to be acceptable in society to have a SAH wife / mother but not so much a SAH husband/father.

[MonkeyMama]

Personally, I don't understand what difference it makes. I doubt you will really be "losing an income." I felt that way when we consciously decided to drop our income in half. 50% of my spouse's waged was just going to taxes. It's been easy to make up the difference by economizing and having more energy for my job/focusing on a higher salary. I think I mentioned we gave up a $50k wage. People hear that and their jaws drop. The reality is we gave up $25k per year take-home. We've been able to make up that other $25k with small side incomes, economizing, and focusing more on my job (I mentioned I make far more money, no doubt, with a supportive at-home spouse). So people here "I gave up $50k" when reality is we've always been pretty even steven. Certainly not any worse off. (Except when I took maternity leave, but we had ample savings for that). Since you mentioned a $27k wage, I can't imagine it really makes that much difference. See if you can make up his take-home wage with cost cutting and side jobs. If not, who cares, you make a great wage, and live well below your means, anyway. & as the others said, this doesn't literally mean he could never change his mind or work again.

Check out Mr. Money Mustached blog - I think you might get something out of it. (& I don't mean to read it as a justification to keep spouse working as long as possible. Because you could take it that way). The premise is that both MMM and his wife retired around age 30, before they had kids. I think it will give you financial peace with a decision that you won't get much outside support for. You both have to have the confidence this is best for you - it is really key not to worry about what everyone else thinks! Good Luck.

[snafu]

While I understand your points, I'm not sure DH is onboard. He understands that we are defined by what we do to earn our living. If you've had opportunities to talk to people who were downsized the blow to their ego and self esteem was more powerful than they imagined. It didn't seem to matter whether they got terrific 'golden' severance, assigned job search coach/councilors or basic benefit. It's not about money for most people although it's an important factor for the family.

Ideally DH would create his own business or do contract work so that he could control working hours. Can he take a leave of absence from employment to try out your plan for six months for example?

Isn't it likely DH will be bored at home? What will replace camaraderie of colleagues? What will challenge him? What new things will he learn to keep exercising his mind?

[bdoubleu]

Check out Mr. Money Mustached blog - I think you might get something out of it. (& I don't mean to read it as a justification to keep spouse working as long as possible. Because you could take it that way). The premise is that both MMM and his wife retired around age 30, before they had kids. I think it will give you financial peace with a decision that you won't get much outside support for. You both have to have the confidence this is best for you - it is really key not to worry about what everyone else thinks! Good Luck.

Discovering MMM has sparked this idea - I found his blog a few months ago, and we both read it often. I see this as being a great resource of "support" if close family/friends don't agree initially - I know most of them will come around eventually, but that initial "negativity" (for lack of better word) may be brutal.

[bdoubleu]

While I understand your points, I'm not sure DH is onboard. He understands that we are defined by what we do to earn our living. If you've had opportunities to talk to people who were downsized the blow to their ego and self esteem was more powerful than they imagined. It didn't seem to matter whether they got terrific 'golden' severance, assigned job search coach/councilors or basic benefit. It's not about money for most people although it's an important factor for the family.

Ideally DH would create his own business or do contract work so that he could control working hours. Can he take a leave of absence from employment to try out your plan for six months for example?

Isn't it likely DH will be bored at home? What will replace camaraderie of colleagues? What will challenge him? What new things will he learn to keep exercising his mind?

He is definitely on board - he just comes from a family where his dad has been working much more than full time since he can remember, and his mom has floated between several jobs and had a stint of staying at home. The difference is, his parents' lifestyle is so over the top, that his parents still need all the money they can make.

We are NOT defined by what we do to earn a WAGE - he will still be earning a LIVING by caring for our house/chores/cooking/errands/etc., and eventually caring for our kid(s).

The camaraderie of his colleagues will be easily replaced - he works with 3 other people, 2 of whom are in and out (more out) of the office on a regular basis. I work with hundreds of people, so if I were to quit I would miss the interaction there. He has never, at any job, made deep connections with many people - he used to work at a very large company, and now works at a very small one. He has always looked at his job like "I go here for the day, do my job, and come home." And there are plenty of projects around the house to keep his mind occupied.

He's not being downsized - he and I are making a conscious decision, with our family in mind, to have him home. Again, he may not make any money, but the general decrease in stress in our relationship will be entirely worth it.

He may someday do contract work or find some other job - our only "stipulation" is that it would have to be something very flexible. But there is no desire from either of us that he do this - just simply an option if he finds that he doesn't enjoy staying home.

[bdoubleu]

Personally, I don't understand what difference it makes. I doubt you will really be "losing an income." I felt that way when we consciously decided to drop our income in half. 50% of my spouse's waged was just going to taxes. It's been easy to make up the difference by economizing and having more energy for my job/focusing on a higher salary. I think I mentioned we gave up a $50k wage. People hear that and their jaws drop. The reality is we gave up $25k per year take-home. We've been able to make up that other $25k with small side incomes, economizing, and focusing more on my job (I mentioned I make far more money, no doubt, with a supportive at-home spouse). So people here "I gave up $50k" when reality is we've always been pretty even steven. Certainly not any worse off. (Except when I took maternity leave, but we had ample savings for that). Since you mentioned a $27k wage, I can't imagine it really makes that much difference. See if you can make up his take-home wage with cost cutting and side jobs. If not, who cares, you make a great wage, and live well below your means, anyway. & as the others said, this doesn't literally mean he could never change his mind or work again.

This is precisely the conclusion we reached. His take-home is ~$1700/month, which is great. For the last ~year, that had all been going toward debt repayment, so we haven't really "lived" on it yet. For as long as he works, it will all be going directly to savings, so we still won't really adjust to that (obviously our "saving power" will drop when he's done working). But it doesn't pad our savings enough to make it worth watching our relationship deteriorate before our eyes. In my opinion, we're to young for THAT.

[MonkeyMama]

Discovering MMM has sparked this idea

Awesome!!

I largely relate to MMM with my spouse "retiring" at age 25. & I generally don't like early retirement type blogs - I find them kind of annoying, for various reasons. But I found this one much better grounded in reality, and it kind of jived with real life. & I think it's possible a lot of early retirement blogs are to the same end, but I don't think the rest communicated it so well as MMM does. Anyway, take his advice and you will do well.

[humandraydel]

The reality is we gave up $25k per year take-home.

No offense (because I respect you), but this line of thinking absolutely boggles my mind. I guess because I currently save around $20k per year. So, to double my annual savings rate, even if only for a few years, would be great! To me, the second income is pretty much pure profit, so I don't see why I would turn it down.

[TBH]

There are more important things than money. It sounds like you have the money side well taken care of. And this doesn't strike me as a permanent decision. There are many ways to earn a small amount of money from flexible part time jobs. He can always do that in the future, or even go back to work full time if that's what he wants.

Good luck getting other people to respect your decision! I think you're right that they will, over time.

[bdoubleu]

Follow-up, part 1:

We have told all of our close family/friends, and have had interesting responses.

His bosses completely understood, tried (and maybe are still trying) to find ways to keep him, but the biggest problem is that they need a person physically in the office, which is obviously counter-intuitive to quitting to be home more.

My mom was 100% on board, she knows we are well set financially, and, being a single mom and me being an only child, we have a unique relationship and a lot of mutual respect between us. She said she was expecting this sooner or later

We consider it lucky that we were able to tell my FIL without MIL present (she was out of town for a family emergency). FIL is 100% supportive, offered wonderful advice and about an hour's worth of great discussion.

We were nervous to tell DH's brother and wife - SIL has made it very well known that she does not want to ever work again. Problem is that they had a kid ~18 months ago, she quit working, and now they are in a position where she needed to go back to work (financially speaking of course, she is very vocal about hating that she has to work again). They do not make a large income, but spend as though they do. DH told his brother without SIL present, and he is equally supportive as FIL. BIL expressed they would do the same, if they could.

Friends have had good responses - though many of our friends are still in school and/or living with their parents. So many don't understand, but there have been no negative responses.

Dun dun dunnnnn, and finally comes MIL - she is 100% NOT supportive of our decision. DH told her without me there (I was working), and the results were not pretty. She accused ME of ruining DH's career potential (his entry level position at his job is as high as he would move up where he works, and he has never had a desire to move up in any other job, because he has never liked a job enough to invest more time/effort into it) just so DH would wait on me "hand and foot." She also said it's a horrible decision "in case anything happens later" (which DH tried to clarify, but concluded she meant if we were to divorce). She also repeated multiple times that we needed to think about it more (we've been thinking about it realistically for ~6 months, dreamed of it longer). Also had arguments of "well, I work a job I don't like, but that doesn't mean I'm going to quit!" She didn't seem to listen to anything DH said, she was very set that her opinion was the only correct one, so the conversation ended. A couple days later, BIL went over to their house, MIL walked in and brought up "the subject" right away, and BIL tried to "defend" our decision to MIL to no avail. DH went over there for dinner a few nights later, and she went about her business as if nothing had ever happened.

We strategically decided to tell people who we knew would be more supportive first, then tell his bosses, then tell his mom (knowing she wouldn't like it, but not knowing just how passionately negative she would be!

Finally having it all out in the open only confirms to us that we are making the right decision. We are very excited to start down this new path in our journey! He told his bosses he would stay through April (no longer), to give them time to find a replacement and for him to train the new person a little bit. I'll update then (or sooner if they find a replacement sooner!) as to how everything is going Thanks for all the input so far!

[UnknownXV]

This is not a good idea. He's only in his mid-twenties and he's ready to call it quits from the workforce? He's too young for that. If he's not found his "passion", he should consider pursuing the training/education to do so.

If it's not required, I wouldn't work either. I don't have any passions that can be monetized.. no amount of training or education will change that. It's a shame not everyone is born with a passion like that, it really does make life a hell of a lot easier with the whole "Do something you love and you'll never work a day in your life".

With her income, it's hardly an issue.

[bdoubleu]

Update

Hubby didn't really have an "official" last day - they had several issues with the people they hired to replace him, so he spent a good part of 2013 "on call" for filling in when needed, and training the THREE people they went through to replace him. The big incentive there was that they "hired" him as a "consultant" and increased his pay from ~$16/hour to $40/hour (obviously fewer hours, but he made ~$1500 total as a consultant).

Big changes:
- I am now working overnights (instead of evenings), which was my overall goal, and my base pay has increased from $110,000 to about $125,000. Still opportunities for significant overtime, which I have/can freely take advantage of, knowing it doesn't cut into our time together as much as it would if he were working. I am actually tossing around the idea of going part time - sometime in the next 5 years or so. We shall see.
- I now max out my 401k, in addition to our Roth IRAs. We have just over $100,000 in retirement at this point.
- Also contribute at least $1,000/month to savings/taxable investment account (usually ~$2,000 unless we are planning a vacation/large purchase/etc.). We have ~$50,000 in savings/non-retirement investment accounts now.
- Car gas expenses have gone from $250/month to $100/month (we both have taken up bicycle riding on nice days) [thanks MMM!]
- We have agreed on an "allowance" of sorts for him and his hobbies of ~$300/month, and this has gone very well.
- I haven't done laundry for over a year.
- Our net worth continues to increase every month, even with some large medical expenses (hubby with more free time = more activities = injuries, ha!), vacations, new floors for the house, etc. It's really mind-blowing to expect a drop in assets, but continue to see an increase (obviously the market was very kind last year, but even disregarding that, everything is heading in the right direction!).

DH has been doing much-needed repairs/minor maintenance on our house, which is great because it feels like a new house every time he tackles a room. A lot of the projects he has been doing would be ones we would have just hired someone to do in the past, so significant savings (and gained knowledge for him!) there. He also fixed our treadmill with a $20 part (it is about 8 years old - we likely would have just trashed it and bought a newer, fancier one in the past).

It's still fun to explain our situation when we meet new people and the typical "oh, what do you do?" questions come up. Once you really explain the upside to it, people are usually accepting of it, and most seem a little "jealous," if you will.

The current goal is to save enough to be able to pay off the mortgage (balance of ~$77,000) before DH is 30 (early 2016). Partially just to blow the minds of the "doubters" we've run into (highest on that list is MIL, who STILL doesn't like what we are doing!!). And mostly because it would be spectacular to not have a FREAKING HOUSE PAYMENT. (We've already debated and decided on the "invest or pay off the mortgage," so that debate is closed.)

Obviously, if he were to go back to work, having more money would accelerate our savings even faster, but we both feel we have a good work/life balance at the moment. And he still has no desire to get a "j.o.b.," and I am just fine with that.

Just wanted to update to show people who are even kind of thinking about taking any kind of big step to JUST DO IT! You can always go back, but I doubt you will want to

[MonkeyMama]

Thanks for the update. Glad it is going well. Heck, you are doing spectacular!

Oh, my MIL thought it was the *end of the world* that my male spouse stayed home with kids. She has come around with time. For many many many reasons. Most of which is probably how well our kids are thriving. In fact, my MIL pulled my spouse aside the other day and told him he was right all along, and she hopes he doesn't go back to work. I figure that is right about when he gets a job offer and goes back to work. HA! {You can't win, can you? It's not exactly our plan for my own spouse to stay home forever. I Can just hear it now - how awful we are as parents to both work - something like that}.

I truly do hope you get more support and acceptance from loved ones, with time. If my MIL can get over it, any MIL can?

[jIM_Ohio]

Certainly a great position to be in. If both of you are truly fine with him not working, I see nothing wrong with stopping. If you are debt-free except the mortgage and are able to invest 19% (10% to 401k plus 10K to Roths) for retirement and still have an additional $2,000 savings each month just from your base salary (not counting bonuses), that's fantastic.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about what other people think or say, but that's just the type of person I am.

I would at least consider a couple of other things. You mention that he has several hobbies that he enjoys. Perhaps he could find a way to monetize something that he does to some extent. Another consideration is for him to find work that would more closely match your schedule (at least on the weeks that you are working). If he could find a flexible part-time job that he liked, he could still be contributing financially while also having the freedom to spend time with you when you are off.

Overall, though, I see no reason for him to work given what you've posted.

I will second this comment.

OK for him to stop working
Make sure you account for added expenses from the hobbies (like brewing more beer with more spare time). I might even suggest he get a part time job at a brewery (allow him to follow his passion) or make sure he does not get bored the week you work 84 hours.

Another idea is to invest in education. You are young, so the ROI on your husband going to school to get a higher demand skill is quite high.

[bennkar]

Its good to hear how it worked out after all this time. Normally I would advise against what you have done, but... given your willingness to keep at your work and to keep saving, his low original pay, and his determination to do everything needed and to upgrade your house... I think you have made a great choice. I don't think this would have worked for most people, but good for you.