college savings

[littleroc02us]

Why is it that in society that parents can ponder over a 35 cent savings on a gallon of milk, but when it comes to their children's education they are expected socially to pay for their child's education that can run into the 100's of thousands? I personally don't understand this philosophy. My parents paid for half of my education and I had to work from the time I was 12 and all the way through college to pay for school and room and board. I did take out some school loans in addition and joined the military to help pay for college. I believe my instilled in me a sense of responsibility and it allowed me to prepare for the real world. I got a great education, while working and could have achieved the same goal at a much lower price than orginally projected. What kids should know these day's is that employers don't care if you went to a high priced private or state university, they care about what you know and your experience. I work for the University of Minnesota and it seems like our campus newspaper allows talks about graduating seniors and how there are no jobs. So, what's interesting is that their parents are basically sending their children into huge amounts of debt for an education that may or may not bring them a job. Our university has now doubled in cost. What if that same individual went to a community college to obtain their general eds and then transferred to a bigger university for their major. They could save thousands.

A good book to read regarding these statistics and philosophies is "Debt free U" by Zac Bissonette. The book is about how he managed to go to college and pay for it all in cash along the way by working.

I personally have my own plan for my kids some day. I will tell my kids that I am willing to pay half of their college expenses up to a certain point. The way I will mathmatically figure that out is by taking the average cost of the first 2 years at a technical college for the gen eds and then the average state school costs and that will be the cap. Anything above that will be their responsibility by paying for it themselves.

What do you guys plan on doing?

[cypher1]

Our university has now doubled in cost. What if that same individual went to a community college to obtain their general eds and then transferred to a bigger university for their major. They could save thousands.

That's something my dad told me, when I was doing my generals. He made a good point about doing generals at CC and save money, then transfer to 4yr program. It doesn't matter where you start, but where you end up for college/degree. Being young and stubborn, I never finished college, and jumped into the real world for work in my early 20s. If I wasted any money in college for loans, I had no one to blame but myself, since my parents didn't pay for it (not that I blame them in anyway for my own decisions). So I'd agree with at most, consider paying no more than 50% of their continuing education. But then again I'm nowhere near thinking about family/kid topics. And at the same time, most of my college grad friends, are complaining about not having experience for finding jobs, or going back to get their masters in sociology or psychology. I have another friend 85K in debt for loans while getting her MBA, at least she is currently employed.

Littlerocu2us, what do you do at the U? That's where I went also for generals, 10 years ago

[billchrz]

An even more cost effective route is to have your child take CLEP and DSST exams while they are in high school to test out of the general education requirements. Most of the gen ed material is only a little bit more detailed than what is taught in high schools and the CLEP/DSST can be taken when the material is being taught. Each CLEP exam is $75 and worth 3 or 6 credits. Each DSST exam is $80 and worth 3 credits. There are many schools (for example Thomas Edison State College) that have a credit banking program that will allow you to bank the credits with the university and get an official transcript to transfer those credits to the school of your choice.

[frugalgirl]

This is such a personal decision and every person on this board will have their individual opinion. We are actively planning and saving to pay for our childrens' college educations. We will be able to cover the cost of an in-state university while simultaneously saving for our retirement. If our children choose to go beyond a bachelor's degree or a private school education, then they will have to contribute the difference. As long as they continue to work hard and we can afford it, we have absolutely no problem paying for them to go to school. That is what works for our family.

One comment regarding attending community college for 2 years first: There are majors that require attending a school with a 4-year program. Not everyone can attend a community college for 2 years and expect to finish a degree at another school in an additional 2 years. For example, engineers start taking several courses in their major in the sophomore year. These courses would not be offered at a local community college. The coursework is also sequential with pre-requisites so one could not take sophomore level courses at the same time as junior level ones. In addition, most universities do not offer these courses in the summer or every semester so the only way to finish in 4 years is to be on sequence. There are probably some exceptions to this but, by and large, this is the route almost all engineers would have to take to finish in 4 years.

[littleroc02us]

Littlerocu2us, what do you do at the U? That's where I went also for generals, 10 years ago

I never went to the U, I just work here. I got my computer science degree from MCTC and now work as a computer support specialist with a great career and wonderful benifits. It's just hard to imagine what most of these kids are going to do when they graduate with such hefty loans.

[littleroc02us]

One comment regarding attending community college for 2 years first: There are majors that require attending a school with a 4-year program. Not everyone can attend a community college for 2 years and expect to finish a degree at another school in an additional 2 years. For example, engineers start taking several courses in their major in the sophomore year. These courses would not be offered at a local community college. The coursework is also sequential with pre-requisites so one could not take sophomore level courses at the same time as junior level ones. In addition, most universities do not offer these courses in the summer or every semester so the only way to finish in 4 years is to be on sequence. There are probably some exceptions to this but, by and large, this is the route almost all engineers would have to take to finish in 4 years.

I'm sure there are many inexpensive state colleges you could send your children to that would give them a good education in the field of Engineering if that is what they want to do. Spending more money on a fancy university doesn't gaureentee a good job. The funny part about my experience is that I attended a private college for 4 years and earned a Bachaler's degree in Liberal arts and came out with well over 30k in school loans. The funny part about that was that I couldn't find a job that paid squat. So, in my late twenties I went back to a Technical college and spent only 5k for a great education and am now making great money with a good future. The point is that you also don't have to go to a major university to have a good career and to make a high salary. That is such a fallacy. How do you know your kids will get a return on investment on the money spent on an expensive college. I am proof that it wasn't worth it to spend lots of money to earn a high paying job.

[feh]

My wife and I plan to pay for 3 years of college at the state university (a Big 10 school). Our son will need to come up w/ the balance.

[jpg7n16]

Why is it that in society that parents can ponder over a 35 cent savings on a gallon of milk, but when it comes to their children's education they are expected socially to pay for their child's education that can run into the 100's of thousands? I personally don't understand this philosophy.

Because to most people, milk is milk. Gas is gas.

But to most people, community college is not Harvard.

In their minds, the education and benefits and prestidge of a Harvard are worth a lot more than the education, benefits and prestidge of the local community college.

I mean think about it - would you rather do business with a company run by Harvard grads? or by graduates of the local community college? Businesses will pay a certain amount more to be run by the Harvard guys. So there is some economic benefit.


Having said that, most people don't know how to put a dollar figure on that extra benefit and will just pay it, "because that's what it costs these days." Which is obv different than how you and I look at things.

Cause Harvard and community college are the ends of the spectrum to prove that a difference does exist. But what about Kansas vs Kansas St. Auburn/Alabama. OU or Oklahoma St. Is there a difference? Maybe, but not nearly as vast as Harvard/CC. And is it worth the difference in admission to go to one or the other? Probably not.

(There is a difference between say Princeton and Kansas St., the engineering program at MIT - or at your local state school, etc.)

And yes, you can also find some people at a community college that will work harder and get a better education than some slacker who goes to Harvard. And maybe you know this one guy who went to Harvard, and didn't succeed... but in general, Harvard is better.

All schools are not the same.

[littleroc02us]

Because to most people, milk is milk. Gas is gas.

But to most people, community college is not Harvard.

In their minds, the education and benefits and prestidge of a Harvard are worth a lot more than the education, benefits and prestidge of the local community college.

I mean think about it - would you rather do business with a company run by Harvard grads? or by graduates of the local community college? Businesses will pay a certain amount more to be run by the Harvard guys. So there is some economic benefit.


Having said that, most people don't know how to put a dollar figure on that extra benefit and will just pay it, "because that's what it costs these days." Which is obv different than how you and I look at things.

Cause Harvard and community college are the ends of the spectrum to prove that a difference does exist. But what about Kansas vs Kansas St. Auburn/Alabama. OU or Oklahoma St. Is there a difference? Maybe, but not nearly as vast as Harvard/CC. And is it worth the difference in admission to go to one or the other? Probably not.

(There is a difference between say Princeton and Kansas St., the engineering program at MIT - or at your local state school, etc.)

And yes, you can also find some people at a community college that will work harder and get a better education than some slacker who goes to Harvard. And maybe you know this one guy who went to Harvard, and didn't succeed... but in general, Harvard is better.

All schools are not the same.

Remember, Harvard is for the few along with other ivy league schools. Harvard is not for majority of students who go to college. In fact if you read Zac's book you will discover statistically that the jobs they get out of school don't come near the debt they incur. Your not comparing apples to apples. The example I gave previously regarding going to the University of Minnesota vs. a technical college. If you go to Minnesota then on average the kids here according to the latest Minnesota Daily News are not graduating within 4 years because it's difficult to get the classes you need. Therefore they end up going 5 years. Well tuition at the U is according to this website: University of Minnesota, Twin Cities Tuition, Costs and Financial Aid - CollegeData College Profile, Is almost 20k a year. So, to go to the U will cost you around 100k for 5 years. That doesn't even include books and entertainment. If you go to MCTC which I went to the cost per semester is $1812 per semester which comes out to $18k for 5 years. Plus they can live at home and commute for those years and maybe finish school faster. That is where I went and I make probably just as much from that education as I would have from the U of M in the same field.
I think the reason people justify sending their children to large universities is because they did it and it is the thing to do. It is not true that you cannot get just as good of an education from a smaller state school or community college. In fact my sister did the same thing, she went to Gustavus Adolphus which back in the early 90's was around 24k a year. She never really got into a good career after that. She ended up also going to MCTC and is now doing consulting work in the area of Web design and doing quite well. It is untrue that just because you go to a major University and you spend tons of money on it that you will get the job you want. All I'm saying is to really make your kids think about the reasons they choose the college they do.

[cypher1]

Remember, Harvard is for the few along with other ivy league schools. Harvard is not for majority of students who go to college. In fact if you read Zac's book you will discover statistically that the jobs they get out of school don't come near the debt they incur. Your not comparing apples to apples. The example I gave previously regarding going to the University of Minnesota vs. a technical college. If you go to Minnesota then on average the kids here according to the latest Minnesota Daily News are not graduating within 4 years because it's difficult to get the classes you need. Therefore they end up going 5 years. Well tuition at the U is according to this website: University of Minnesota, Twin Cities Tuition, Costs and Financial Aid - CollegeData College Profile, Is almost 20k a year. So, to go to the U will cost you around 100k for 5 years. That doesn't even include books and entertainment. If you go to MCTC which I went to the cost per semester is $1812 per semester which comes out to $18k for 5 years. Plus they can live at home and commute for those years and maybe finish school faster. That is where I went and I make probably just as much from that education as I would have from the U of M in the same field.
I think the reason people justify sending their children to large universities is because they did it and it is the thing to do. It is not true that you cannot get just as good of an education from a smaller state school or community college. In fact my sister did the same thing, she went to Gustavus Adolphus which back in the early 90's was around 24k a year. She never really got into a good career after that. She ended up also going to MCTC and is now doing consulting work in the area of Web design and doing quite well. It is untrue that just because you go to a major University and you spend tons of money on it that you will get the job you want. All I'm saying is to really make your kids think about the reasons they choose the college they do.

I was just going to say, I don't know how anyone can really compare an Ivy league school to even a state university in terms of academics, cost with possible return on investment for potential careers/growth. I'm not go into specifics of generals, liberal arts, IT, or business fields being better at different locations. I'm sure most of us agree all schools are not the same. As JPG had stated, "in general, Harvard is better." The question I ask is at what price is it better? Where do we draw the line for cost of our investment to ourselves for our future?
I guess that would go back to listing our priorities in life. My parents (not just mine) sacrifice so much for us, to give us better oppurtunities than they had. I watch them getting older and it always amazes how hard they worked to raise us and teach us values, exemplify hard work. I always felt my dad was extremely disapointed when I dropped out, not understanding how fast working world has evolved since his time (he is also in union). So I see why they pushed us for a 4yr degree, leading to a bright career guaranteed by a piece of paper. I can understand why parents are willing to pay so much for their children's future. Frugalgirl summed it perfectly that it's such of a personal decision for everyone, that there really is no correct answer since all of us have gone down different paths. Nothing in life is guaranteed or fair, but it's all a part of the game everyday.

[jpg7n16]

Remember, Harvard is for the few along with other ivy league schools. Harvard is not for majority of students who go to college. In fact if you read Zac's book you will discover statistically that the jobs they get out of school don't come near the debt they incur. Your not comparing apples to apples. The example I gave previously regarding going to the University of Minnesota vs. a technical college. If you go to Minnesota then on average the kids here according to the latest Minnesota Daily News are not graduating within 4 years because it's difficult to get the classes you need. Therefore they end up going 5 years. Well tuition at the U is according to this website: University of Minnesota, Twin Cities Tuition, Costs and Financial Aid - CollegeData College Profile, Is almost 20k a year. So, to go to the U will cost you around 100k for 5 years. That doesn't even include books and entertainment. If you go to MCTC which I went to the cost per semester is $1812 per semester which comes out to $18k for 5 years. Plus they can live at home and commute for those years and maybe finish school faster. That is where I went and I make probably just as much from that education as I would have from the U of M in the same field.
I think the reason people justify sending their children to large universities is because they did it and it is the thing to do. It is not true that you cannot get just as good of an education from a smaller state school or community college. In fact my sister did the same thing, she went to Gustavus Adolphus which back in the early 90's was around 24k a year. She never really got into a good career after that. She ended up also going to MCTC and is now doing consulting work in the area of Web design and doing quite well. It is untrue that just because you go to a major University and you spend tons of money on it that you will get the job you want. All I'm saying is to really make your kids think about the reasons they choose the college they do.

*Sigh*... this is exactly why I added all those disclaimers at the end of my post.

And specifically said:

Cause Harvard and community college are the ends of the spectrum to prove that a difference does exist. But what about Kansas vs Kansas St. Auburn/Alabama. OU or Oklahoma St. Is there a difference? Maybe, but not nearly as vast as Harvard/CC. And is it worth the difference in admission to go to one or the other? Probably not.

...

And yes, you can also find some people at a community college that will work harder and get a better education than some slacker who goes to Harvard. And maybe you know this one guy who went to Harvard, and didn't succeed... but in general, Harvard is better.

All schools are not the same.

Although I would still say that UT-Austin would be more reputable and get more job offers (through networking, etc.) than someone who goes to Austin community college. You can't deny that a difference exists even for non ivy schools

If Harvard is better than a community college, then some schools are better than others. And larger state schools are better than smaller state schools.

But I specifically said, "is it worth the difference in admission to go to one or the other? Probably not."

[jpg7n16]

The question I ask is at what price is it better? Where do we draw the line for cost of our investment to ourselves for our future?

Exactly.

You, me and the OP would take that extra step - but there are many out there, who do not consider this step at all because of other factors. It's where they're "supposed" to go, where their friends are going, my favorie school, the best X program, the pride, the prestidge, the honor, etc.


Just like how many people do not consider the huge depreciation on a new car - they just buy one cause that's what they think you're "supposed" to do, all their friends have new cars, etc.



I'm not saying it's smart, but it is why people will do it.

[moneybags]

I think the reason people justify sending their children to large universities is because they did it and it is the thing to do. It is not true that you cannot get just as good of an education from a smaller state school or community college.

I went to community college and then a cheaper state school all while living at home, working, and paying for all my education. I think the college I graduated from affected my career path and not in a good way. This is why I want to send my kids to a good university and pay as much of the cost as I can.

[docstudent]

who do people have kids?

When I have kids, I will be honored to finance my child's education. I believe it is my responsibility as a parent to do so. If it means that I have to work two jobs....that's what I would do! There is a huge disparity between the quality of education at a local community college, state college, tier-one and Ivy league institutions. There is a synergy, which exist at top universities, which aren't being duplicated at other universities across the country. Case in point, the social networking systems/ and other internet innovations, which have made instant billinonaires out of college aged students ....they did not go to x-community college, ummm, they were at Stanford, Harvard, MIT, and other elite universities. I have friends that have attended prestigious colleges, and there is a huge difference with relationship to networking.....look at our Supreme Court, and recent appointments made by our President, if you don't see a trend, you're blind. I attended an average college for undergrad..and it was one of the worst decisions that I ever made....I got to attend a tier one for grad school...and it was one of the most stimulating experience of my academic career..

[littleroc02us]

I have friends that have attended prestigious colleges, and there is a huge difference with relationship to networking.....look at our Supreme Court, and recent appointments made by our President, if you don't see a trend, you're blind. I attended an average college for undergrad..and it was one of the worst decisions that I ever made....I got to attend a tier one for grad school...and it was one of the most stimulating experience of my academic career..

I'm very sorry that the average school you attended didn't meet up to your expectations. Here in Minnesota we have a wonderful education system, but our cheaper state schools are wonderful schools and many polititicians and business men have attended them and have done quite well for them. The mentality that you must go to a major school or private school is a total joke in my opinion and is what keeps all of these schools raising their tuition cost every year, because of the noteriety of them. I believe in education, but at what price? Bill Gates went to Harvard, but dropped out, did he suffer because of it?