Do you NEED 2 incomes?

[tripods68]

Seeker,

I agree that money does not define “happiness" and not the only factor. We are now in the stage lives where we are both raising our two young kids, instituting good values and principles in them, and while working to pay our debt (mortgage, 2nd, car note). Our debt balance will greatly improve in 2 years but you know, that’s not important to us but the ability to have the “means” to enjoy life and share good things is what really matter to us most of all. Without the means, we simply just are trying to survive.

[DebbieL]

Have you guys thought of moving? There are more affordable places to live and if it was important to you to live off of one income, somewhere else may be the ticket.

The closest city (for work purposes I can't be in the boonies) is way more expensive than even this one. I cannot move far away because I can't take my daughter away from her family. Even though my ex never bothers seeing her I'm sure he would cause a stink if I were wanting to move (just to be an arse). I stay here for emotional reasons too. My parents are older (70 and 79) and I like being able to spend time with them while I still can, etc. There isn't really any place that I could feasibly move right now that would be cheaper. Either there's no work, the jobs don't pay as much, the city is even more expensive than this one, etc. For the time being, I'm better off staying here. If I didn't have my kid, I probably would have been gone a long time ago, as much as I love it here.

PS - I have no desire to live off of one income, I'm just illustrating a point. I'd go bonkers at home. The lifestyle my parents were able to provide for a family of seven on his very average income isn't possible here anymore (unless the one income is from a plastic surgeon or something, lol).

[tripods68]

We attended a dinner party last year. Across from our dinner table were two doctors in mid 30s. The husband is an Orthopedic Surgeon (wife told me later husband was a well renown Ortho Surgeon in his field) and the wife is Pediatric MD. All work in the same hospital my wife works. We end up talking about how they first met, becoming a new parent (they just had a baby girl), and how they end up working for the same hospital. Long story short, the wife took off for 4 months after her pregnancy, but felt pressured to come back to work because she was going insane at home. She didn't know how to handle budgeting...her husband does everything. They employed a Nanny FT while they both work. I asked if she ever felt the need to go back work instead taking the time off for couple of years. She responded by saying, "I would go insane if I didn't go to work". I'm not made to stay home and just take care a baby." "I didn't spend all this student loans for medical school just to stay home." Again, not that they didn't have the money...He was pulling like around $500K a year, her around $160K.

But I thought what she said was indeed interesting coming from a highly paid doctors in their own perspective....

[moneybags]

Cell phones are a prime example. Virtually nobody NEEDS a cell phone. Are they good to have? Are they useful in an emergency? Are they a great way to keep in touch? Absolutely. But you don't really need it. It is a pure luxury item, a convenience.

A cell phone is actually shifting to a need. Example: when I was a teenager, if I went to the library, I could call my parents to notify them using a pay phone. My kids can't do this. I can't remember the last time I saw a pay phone anywhere. They aren't at the library, high school, etc.

[DebbieL]

If I was a doctor I wouldn't give that up either. I can see her point. About 7 years ago my family doctor quit to be a stay at home mom and I was very surprised by that. I don't know if she ever went back to work or not.

[Snave]

I hear this argument a lot but I don't think it is true. The wants have just changed. Someone mentioned buying a $600 VCR. My dad was always into gadgets, liked to have the fun new thing. We were among the first to have a VCR (Betamax back then). Before that, we were one of the first to have color television. Then it was the stereo or the portable cassette player. Then the Walkman came out. Of course, there was always the hot toy at the holidays. My dad always drove a Cadillac. My friends used to think it was the coolest thing when we picked them up and we had power windows. We had a pool table in our basement. There have always been plenty of wants to spend your money on.

I think the difference is that today, many of the luxury items and wants are things people have convinced themselves are actually needs. Cell phones are a prime example. Virtually nobody NEEDS a cell phone. Are they good to have? Are they useful in an emergency? Are they a great way to keep in touch? Absolutely. But you don't really need it. It is a pure luxury item, a convenience. Years ago, I think luxuries were more recognized as such.

I agree with you about the VCR, stereo, etc... but the cell phone arguement does not hold as much water. I understand your arguement, but I think there is a fine line between wants and needs for some items. How effectively could you do your job without a cell phone? or a pager? Yes, your job could be done, but you wouldn't be as effective (effecient). Do I really need the computer? No from a personal perspective, but if I want to do my job, I have to have it. I would be put out of business if I was dealing with snail mail and paper forms when my competitors are not. I think there are want items that begin to blur the line because society relies on them to a great extent. At this time, however, society does not rely on a new plasma TV or new stereo.

[DebbieL]

Some jobs may require a cell phone in today's world, but mine doesn't. I have no need for a cell phone. I work in an architectural firm, and NONE of the architects have them either. They seem to do okay. I try to avoid cell phones as much as possible. I think we will see health issues from cell phone use in the future. I think they are great in case of an emergency (car breaks down, etc).

[LivingAlmostLarge]

It depends. I think cell phones are necessary if you don't have a land line. And the costs is similar.

About $30/month.

[tripods68]

There's no doubt, the cell phones, computers, and all the gadget are HIGHLY marketed. Cell phones/computers in those days cost anywhere from $4K to $7K each. Those were luxuries. Plus there were plenty of public phones around back then. Today, public phones are becoming EXTINCT replaced by highly mobile Internet society. I wouldn't want my daughter to be stranded somewhere on a class trip without some type of communication medium security of a cell phone. A cell phone has now become the "norm" no longer a luxury. In all practicality regular landline are slowly disappearing in every home replaced by cell phones instead especially when the old generations start to die. Check the facts.

[Maismom]

Hence my original question. How many 2-income couples are both working in order to afford what not all that long ago would have been considered an upper class lifestyle? If you would go back to living like we did 20 years ago, could you be comfortable on one income?

Unfortunately my DH's 40K salary won't support our living expenses in CA, saving for retirement, and saving for college. We hardly eat out, I normally cook from scratch even though I work full time and go to school full time, and I use coupons for almost all the HBA products I buy. So, 2 income is necessary for us.

[Madwand]

Simple Answer

Stop Living Beyond Your Means!! Then one spouse can stay home with the kids while the other works. So many people buy and buy and then get trapped into 2 incomes. Do it because you want too not because you have too.

But for me I wish my wife would get a job. She's going crazy in the house all day and driving me nuts.

Scott

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Madwand, you live in Ohio, come and live in NY or CA or DC and see if you sing the same tune. When it costs $1600/month for a 1 bedroom to RENT let's talk okay?

You are assuming people are living beyond their means when they buy, buy, buy. Not true.

My DH and I used to earn $40k jointly gross. Try living on that in CA. So get off the high horse. I had no kids, but that's not the point.

[Seeker]

Seeker,

I agree that money does not define “happiness" and not the only factor. We are now in the stage lives where we are both raising our two young kids, instituting good values and principles in them, and while working to pay our debt (mortgage, 2nd, car note). Our debt balance will greatly improve in 2 years but you know, that’s not important to us but the ability to have the “means” to enjoy life and share good things is what really matter to us most of all. Without the means, we simply just are trying to survive.

I understand that. Sorry about getting back to these threads so late (having thee days off in a row sorta means that I don't do much 'net reading when catching up to the chores at home).

I agree with you and that's also what I was trying to put across. We want more, so we go out there and strive for it. If we do not strive for more, we very simply cannot do the things above basic "survival" that we so much want to do.

My point throughout this thread, is that I don't think that it's an easy life either way. Times have changed sufficiently that the items (whether or not needs/wants) have made it such that per dollar earned, we get less now than we did then.

Steve, I've read your further explanation of what you wanted to get out of this thread. I understand. But I also realize that a lot of things are dicated by our environment. Our "society" so to speak.

Me and DH don't really watch TV and we don't have cable. Every so often at work or wherever someone describes a commercial they've seen and how "funny" it is. It's just rather awkward for me; but I don't really feel the need to go out there and get "cable" or start watching TV. Same with any number of things. Socitey does not dictate my reality; in some ways I don't seem to "fit."

Today, in High School, every single student carries a cell phone. Do you know how much income the cell phone companies are making on this? It's a multi-million dollar op. Even some Junior High school students carry one and probably younger students as well. Times have changed.

Affording things on one income is not by any means "easy." And to your comment, Steve, that some people could live on one income, if they choose to live on less... I agree that they could. BUT, not too many people are going to want to live on less.

So essentially we have a few factors:
1) costs per dollar are higher; the dollar buys less today.
2) we don't want to live as our forefathers, we want to live "well" and we don't mind working toward that goal.
3) society/environment has a great influence over our needs and wants (keeping up with the Joneses).

[Seeker]

The point that I'm trying to make, and perhaps I haven't made it all that clearly, is that I know numerous people who claim to "need" both incomes to make ends meet, but when you look at their lifestyles and spending habits, you can find plenty of things that could be trimmed or cut to allow them to live just fine on one of their incomes if having a stay-at-home parent was really a priority for them. Certainly, this doesn't apply to all couples. Some really do need both incomes even though one of them would love to stay home. Others have no desire to stay home and are far happier working. I'm focusing only on the ones who want to stay home, think they can't, but if they really worked at it, probably could. Hope that makes sense.

It makes sense, but the part bolded above.... might it be that they are just somewhat unrealistic and perhaps not too honest with themselves?

Might it be that they'd like to live the same as they do now, but on one income? Essentially, not cut back and live on one income, and afford all they have now? They're not saying that.... but the implication is there.

Unfortunately, the costs of the situation dictate the reality. We'd all probably love to live on one income, in fact, many of us desire to "retire" early and live off of savings, investments, etc. We look forward to that goal.

We do what we need to, in order to provide for ourself and those we love, both now and in the future.