Protecting children from financial disaster (long and includes a vent)

**catlinye_maker** · 05-26-2007, 04:04 AM

Originally posted by five2one View Post

Last, is there anything I can do short of contacting the attorney about the foreclosure? I've hand delivered, faxed, and mailed my power of attorney to the bank, but they still won't talk to me. Funny thing, I just mentioned to my daughters that I was thinking it would be fun to full-time RV and they both said no way, they needed their "home". We can't lose it now, we only have 3 years left on the mortgage. I thought things were OK, since we got it almost caught up.

With only 3 years left on the mortgage, I'd seriously consider refinancing. At that stage of the loan, you should have a ton of equity, and may have enough to qualify for a no-doc loan. That would stave off foreclosure, allow you to get your name on the mortgage also, and perhaps give you a little extra money to catch up the rest of the bills. You could go for a short term mortgage (10 years?) and still have a lower payment and a better relationship with a new lender. You would likely be looking at a high interest rate, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

Perhaps, having the financial stressors off will help your husband; it sounds like he could offload handling the finances to you and you would both be happier. (Forgive me for advice that does not truly know the situation.) Will mentioning the impact on your kids make an impression on your husband, where nothing else has?

I'm sure that many other board denizens will have excellent advice for you, and I hope that you get the best outcome possible.

**Tree0164** · 05-26-2007, 05:12 AM

I am sorry but if I was in that situation I would be the very least getting a job while the kids were in school. I would be doing everything I could be doing to keep my house.

Does your husband understant how desperate a situation this is? Maybe he need to pick-up more shifts and work so you won't lose your home.

If you know your husband is going to be off 3-4 months each year, then you need to plan for that.

**disneysteve** · 05-26-2007, 05:43 AM

Originally posted by five2one View Post

he's been off 3-4 months each year for the past 10 years. That wreaks havoc on a budget.

Is there any way to soften the blow for the children (11 & 8)

I'm afraid that once things start impacting the children, they will feel the same anger and I do NOT want that, which is why I've been busting my rear to try to keep up appearances for them.

certain things (like satellite TV) are important to them

A few comments.

If your husband has been off for 3-4 months every year for the past 10 years, why it is still such a shock to your budget? I can understand if it was a problem the first or second time it happened, but once you realized that it was going to be an annual occurrence, couldn't you have adjusted your budget to be based on 8 or 9 months of income, probably in the same way that school teachers do? I realize that doesn't help you now, but going forward I think it is something you really need to look at.

Forget about softening the blow for the children. Trust me. They know exactly what is going on, especially the 11-year-old. Kids are much smarter than we make them out to be. I can't imagine that they haven't been aware of the situation on some level - perhaps overheard phone conversations or you and your husband talking about bills or something like that. I think the best way to handle the kids is to sit down with them and explain the situation. Tell them that because dad doesn't have work several months each year, money is really tight and you need to cut out every possible extra from the spending. All trying to keep up appearances does is stress you out more and worsen the situation as you keep spending money on wants like satellite tv while bills are piling up in the background. Sure, the tv might be important to them, but having a roof over their heads is probably a lot more important.

With only 3 years left on your mortgage, there has to be some relatively easy way to improve your situation. Catlinye's suggestion is a good one. Take out a loan against the house. I'd have to sit down and really think about the best way to do that. I'm not sure if a fixed loan or a line of credit would be best in your situation. The HELOC would allow you to draw out just what you need at any given time. For example, you could draw from it during the off months to keep from falling behind on bills and then repay it during the working months. Or a fixed loan would let you borrow enough to get everything current plus a little extra as an emergency fund. You have to run the numbers and see what makes more sense.

If you'd like additional help, listing your income, expenses and debts would allow us to make more detailed suggestions as to where you can cut back and how you get get ahead. Knowing that you are still paying for satellite tv makes me a bit curious about what other non-necessities you are still maintaining for the sake of "keeping up appearances." I know that you were trying to keep your post short, but helping us understand why you aren't able to work yourself would fill in some blanks also.

**lieweheksie** · 05-26-2007, 05:52 AM

"Yes, he has severe anxiety, and yes, he suffers from depression, BUT he refuses to see a doctor b/c "there's nothing wrong"."

Get him to a doctor ASAP- my DH also suffers from severe depression- he has gotten treatment in the last year which has really really helped.Depression is catching- it affects everyone .
I think it may be the time for some hard talking- maybe try and get someone else to help- DH's boss made his first appointment with his therapist- I owe that man big time!
If he's depressed it means you can't rely on him- I know that sounds harsh but I'm afraid it's true. When you're depressed nothing and nobody matters
I would suggest that you need to start taking over all things financial- from earning the money to spending it.
And get yourself some counselling- depression is often harder on those living with it
Good luck
My thoughts are with you

**PrincessPerky** · 05-26-2007, 07:02 AM

Well it isn't exactly that nothing matters, depressed people still love loved ones, it's more like a uphill struggle to bother with anything...even the simplest request of a loved one.

Anyway, I agree he needs help, against his will might be the only route to go, and I agree that you need to stop 'keeping up appearances' Kids are not so easily fooled, at best you are teaching them that keeping up appearances is more important than being financially responsible.....At worst you are teaching them that covering up for a loved one is more important than getting them the help they need.

**five2one** · 05-26-2007, 07:50 AM

Thank you for the responses. I honestly didn't think refinancing would be an option with our credit essentially trashed. Something I definitely have to look into.

A few responses: I own 2 businesses, handle all the bookkeeping for hubby's business, manage the finanaces (he wants to know NOTHING, I do try), manage the household, and homeschool the children (non-negotiable). I simply can't take on another thing. As it is, I average 5 hours of sleep (if I'm lucky). My "work" makes just a tad more than I'd make at a minimum wage, full time job, so it really doesn't make sense to try to come up with child care, extra gas expenses (we live in a rural area), clothing costs associated with my getting a job (I have looked into it)

The shock this year as opposed to years past has been my starting my businesses demanded that I use the credit that is usually reserved for the lean months. Hubby had a largish indoor job set up, but it fell through last minute as the homeowners suddenly got a divorce and sub-freezing temperatures dragged on longer than usual (he's a mason, can't use icy mortar)

As far as the budget goes, I'm not comfortable going into a lot of detail, but our line items are groceries (inlcudes one monthly dinner out, CiCis Pizza, Golden Corral, somewhere cheap), 2 mortgages, utilities (we use VOIP and pay a year at a time in the Summer when we have more income, we do have cell phones, but those are both necessary for our work, we also keep our house almost cold in the winter and very warm in the Summer, no central air, just a couple of small window units), basic satellite, internet (necessary for my work), loan from FIL, insurances, I have a car payment (need my 2003 van to pull my cargo trailer for my work, can't afford the gas for an older model), 6 small credit cards ($300-$800 credit lines, usually used for the winter budget excesses over what I've managed to save), 2 larger credit cards that are closed, leftover from having a child without insurance, medical problems, and special, very expensive formula, 3 retail cards (used for clothing/prescriptions/appliances, we only keep 10 outfits at any given time, have an "in-out" rule, so no excesses there), IRS payment plan, and our gas (car) budget has tripled this year as I'm hauling a trailer around the country and hubby's current job is 90 miles one way. He's been staying as much as he can with other contractors to avoid the commute in his gas guzzler (which is paid for). Also, my children work for me, they help me package my product and I pay them for that rather than give them an allowance (they are not paid for chores, only the work they do for the business). Anything they want over and above the basics comes out of their money. One extra I have (I pay for this one myself) is a small Disney Vacation Club contract. I have a child who is a cast member and we bought at a tremendous discount. I have a show each year at WDW and we use the points for our accomodations while we're there. We eat in the room as much as possible (as we do at all my shows) and my daughter uses her free passes to take the younger ones to the parks. It winds up costing about the same as the other shows I do, plus, once I'm not doing the shows anymore, my children can continue to enjoy it.

IF he would work steadily 9 months out of the year and charge what he SHOULD for his work (even the contractor tells him he doesn't charge enough), we would be fine, even without my jobs. I'm trying to get my businesses off the ground (less than a year, I understand it can take 3 to start seeing a decent profit) to take some pressure off.

I will add that some of our problems are definitely my fault. Our first year owning the business was a blockbuster, so we did a kitchen addition, thinking we could afford it. I didn't realize at the time that our first year was so great b/c it was carry-over from when my FIL owned the business and when hubby took the reins, the bottom just fell out. I've tried to convince FIL to be the one to drum up the business and bid the jobs, but he won't do it.

He will not go to the doctor. We don't have insurance for that sort of thing and he simply says that nothing is wrong. He can't "pick up extra shifts" b/c he's the OWNER (and sole employee). If HE doesn't find the business, it doesn't happen.

thanks again for all the feedback, lots to think about (and I honestly didn't know we might be able to refi)

**neatdesign** · 05-26-2007, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by five2one View Post

...certain things (like satellite TV) are important to them...

I just mentioned to my daughters that I was thinking it would be fun to full-time RV and they both said no way, they needed their "home".

I can guarantee you 100% that if you asked your children what they'd consider more important, they would say their home, NOT satellite (or even cable) TV.

Also, I agree with the others that your husband should see a doctor. Anxiety and depression IS treatable -- and can be devestating to the entire family if it goes untreated. I speak from experience. Get him help.

~ Jenney

**catlinye_maker** · 05-26-2007, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by five2one View Post

thanks again for all the feedback, lots to think about (and I honestly didn't know we might be able to refi)

You can't know for sure until you try, and it might have to be at someplace like Beneficial, which isn't the best, but the worst they can do is say no, and then you're no worse off than you are now. All that equity should help you a lot.

p.s. On rereading, I had a thought (maybe not a great idea, but..) If FIL is unwilling to drum up business, how hard would it be for him to teach you to do it? I understand that you've got plenty on your plate, but you seem to have an entrepreneurial spirit, and you had said that if there was just a small amount more business (9 months out of the year) you would be fine. Would you husband allow you to set up work for him?? If you're already handling the bookkeeping can you learn the invoicing and raise his rates to more normal levels? Would your FIL help you to learn this if he knew how things really stood?

**rebeccae55** · 05-26-2007, 04:35 PM

Wow! What a story, what a life. What comes through is that you are really trying. I have a few thoughts, for what they're worth!

First, I understand depression can be totally immobilizing to the person who suffers with it. However, the other family members, spouse in particular, can exacerbate it, reinforce it, enable it -- call it what you will, by lowering their expectations and working to remove the consequences of the sick behavior. In other words, when you pick up all the slack, DH feels less and less empowered and therefore the depression worsens.

I believe that depression is a true illness, caused by some sort of chemical imbalance. That being said, if your husband had diabetes and never took his insulin, ate candy and sweets to excess, never even saw a doctor, would you not say "Honey, I LOVE you! It breaks my heart to see you abusing your body and ignoring this potential killer"? You MUST seek help. You MUST manage the disease by following the doctor's treatment plan."

So why wouldn't you say, "Honey, I LOVE you! It breaks my heart to see you so anxious and unhappy. I know you say there is nothing wrong. But let's face it, there is. I KNOW there is help out there. For the sake of our marriage, our children, and your heavenly Father who only wants the best for you, I am asking you to seek treatment. I can't live like this anymore. I can't carry the full load alone. We are better together than apart, if you get help. Quite frankly, I am afraid that if you do not, it will only worsen and the stress of it all will destroy our family."

In my own marriage, I rarely insist on anything. But when I do, my DH complies. Not because he is weak or henpecked but because he loves and respects me. (BTW, DH is the one with depression).

One thing I insist on is that he must work, even if it brings little or no income. Have you heard the old saying, "Idle hands are the devil's workshop"? We NEED purpose! Lying around watching TV for 3 months is not in our Heavenly Father's plan! So maybe DH homeschools the kids and runs the house. Or picks up some extra jobs. Or fixes what needs fixing in your house. Does the laundry and cooking. Helps the elderly members of your community with home maintainence. Works on a Habitat for Humanity project. What's helped my husband is volunteering in a substance abuse treatment program for the homeless. The ideas and opportunities are endless! The important thing is for him to finish his days with the knowledge that his efforts have made a positive difference in the world.

I am asking these next questions very bluntly but please know I ask with the kindest intent. On some level, are you a bit of a martyr? Are you critical? Has resentment built up? If the answer to any of these questions is yes, seek your own healing. It doesn't have to be expensive. It can even be free through a church or a 12 step program. Whether or not your husband continues to refuse treatment, go yourself. You are carrying a mighty heavy burden!

Lastly, your kids will be fine without cable or one dinner out a month. Seek out the simple pleasures of life like walks in nature, picnics, camping, church activities, time with friends and each other, board games, the wonders of literature, a "rented" DVD from the public library, and countless other ideas.

You and your family will be in my prayers.

**rebeccae55** · 05-26-2007, 05:04 PM

Oops! I forgot to comment on the house situation. Am I reading your post correctly? Because if I am, it sounds like you are current on the mortgage, or at most 30 days behind. Is that right? If that is so, there is NO danger of foreclosure. Even if you can't talk with the lender, what do the statements say? Any other correspondence?

With only 3 years to go before it's paid off, I totally disagree with the advice to refinance! Sounds like DH should bring in decent income the next 9 months. Write a bare minimum budget and stick to it, while setting money aside for the lean times this winter--which hopefully, will be a lot more prosperous due to the success of your endeavors and DH's as well!

Also, hope my comments about "our heavenly Father" didn't offend you or anyone else. I actually got a little confused and thought I was on a website where that would be appropriate.

**disneysteve** · 05-26-2007, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by rebeccae55 View Post

Lying around watching TV for 3 months

What exactly does your husband do during those 3-4 months without work? Is there any way he could be earning income, or is the depression stopping him from pursuing other things?

**PrincessPerky** · 05-26-2007, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by rebeccae55 View Post

Wow! What a story, what a life. What comes through is that you are really trying. I have a few thoughts, for what they're worth!

You and your family will be in my prayers.

Digging her post.

**cptacek** · 05-26-2007, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by disneysteve View Post

...couldn't you have adjusted your budget to be based on 8 or 9 months of income, probably in the same way that school teachers do...

At least here, teachers get paid for 12 months, but they only work for 8.

**five2one** · 05-26-2007, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by disneysteve View Post

What exactly does your husband do during those 3-4 months without work? Is there any way he could be earning income, or is the depression stopping him from pursuing other things?

Wow, Rebecca! Thank you so much for that post. You are absolutely correct and I have been enabling. I haven't pushed him hard enough about the doctor b/c he just gets so angry and sullen when I mention it, I back down. And, you are right, I am trying to get past the martyr thing and I am very resentful, but I don't say anything at all, just act "normal". I am SO my mother sometimes! I've certainly been on my knees a LOT, esp in the last few days.

To answer the question above, my saying is, "If you aren't working for someone else, you're working for me." In the "off" months, he usually has a house project or cleans up his work barn or I put him to work helping assemble my kits. He does NOT like working for me, says I'm "difficult" (DDs don't seem to have a problem, I show them how something is put together and they seem to be able to do it) He heaves heavy sighs when I ask him to do something for me, but eventually does it. He does NOT help with the children or with homeschooling (those attempts have been disastrous), and the only thing he does around the house is trash and maybe vaccuuming. He's a "women's work" kinda guy, but when I remind him that THIS woman has a JOB, that ticks him off, too.

I'm a DO SOMETHING person. When his income wasn't cutting it, I DID something and started my own businesses. He can't seem to understand that the status quo isn't working anymore and it's not enough to say, "I have a job" when you aren't working/getting paid steadily. I've tried to gently talk to him about the possibility of retraining, but everything is met with, "I already have a job." I've tried to get him to apply at Home Depot in the winter, but he won't. I'm sure it's his anxiety, his hands get clammy and he paces/rocks when he has to talk on the phone with anyone. I think part of the problem is he has very little emotional connection with the children, so doesn't think anything about his actions and how his choices are effecting them at all where, I, on the other hand, am willing to sell MY things on eBay, just to keep things "normal" for the girls.

They did approach me tonight and said they wanted to "Clean Sweep" their rooms and asked if we could have a yard sale. I hadn't mentioned it to anyone, so it is definitely coming from them. They, of course, want to keep any money they earn from their stuff, which is how it should be, but that gives me an excuse to put some things out, too, that I can put toward the family budget. I'm also going to tell hubby that he's got to part with some things...it isn't fair to ask the rest of us to get rid of our stuff and him hang onto his. I also called the cable company and since we have a satellite dish, they are offering a special bundle that would basically make the cable free with our current internet for 12 months. That was certainly an unexpected blessing!

I want to thank everyone again, I am, for the first time in a looonnnggg time starting to feel some hope from your replies. If you pray, I certainly appreciate your lifting our family up right now.

Protecting children from financial disaster (long and includes a vent)