Is $1M the new benchmark for retirement savings?

[disneysteve]

So a neighbor is a lifetime Boeing Employee (so far). Want to hear a terrible and sad story? Anyway about 20 years ago Boeing was frustrated with their manufactoring line. They called up Toyota and asked if they could send the manufactoring managers and experienced workers to show them how to properly run the line. After all Toyota had helped the big 3 automakers how to run their lines better. And the big 3 automakers apparently took it to heart and leaned into it. The biggest thing about "toyota way" is allowing anyone at anytime to "stop the line" in production becase something is wrong. That the lowest man on the line can pull the cord and stop the line. It's a matter of pride in quality control.

Anyway Toyota came and showed boeing how to do this. But boeing decided it wasn't worth it. Hence the missing door plug. The just pushed out airplanes instead of being allowed to stop the line.

A big part of profit probably comes from culture in running the company. They make profits from being good.

Exactly. That illustrates what I said. If you put quality first, profit follows, but that doesn't work the other way around.

[Randomsaver]

So a neighbor is a lifetime Boeing Employee (so far). Want to hear a terrible and sad story? Anyway about 20 years ago Boeing was frustrated with their manufactoring line. They called up Toyota and asked if they could send the manufactoring managers and experienced workers to show them how to properly run the line. After all Toyota had helped the big 3 automakers how to run their lines better. And the big 3 automakers apparently took it to heart and leaned into it. The biggest thing about "toyota way" is allowing anyone at anytime to "stop the line" in production becase something is wrong. That the lowest man on the line can pull the cord and stop the line. It's a matter of pride in quality control.

Anyway Toyota came and showed boeing how to do this. But boeing decided it wasn't worth it. Hence the missing door plug. The just pushed out airplanes instead of being allowed to stop the line.

A big part of profit probably comes from culture in running the company. They make profits from being good.

I enjoyed reading this. Thanks!

[LivingAlmostLarge]

My "guess" is it has to do with trade and access to supply chains. You can build Toyota pickups cheaper in Mexico and the US than you can in Japan with Chicken Tax, without NAFTA, and having to send the product across the ocean to sell it. It's worth noting Toyota and many other foreign makers have factories in the US, Mexico and Canada. Mexico is a huge source of parts/components and partial assemblies for completion in US factories as well.

The impoverished southern US has long been exploited for cheap, anti-union Labor. Mexico has been leveraged for the same, plus lax labor laws, and environmental regulations. Canada, for the exchange rate advantage, and to build cars domestically for Canada. Foreign car companies also use US plants for exporting their cars globally.

IMO, we're not producing more millionaires by getting more Americans working in factories. It hasn't transformed the South and never will. Our economy has moved beyond producing widgets.

Toyota plant is in Kentucky? Yep they build the plants in the south, but a lot of parts are made in mexico and canada and then the assembly is in the us. With the free trade agreement parts and goods go back and forth.

[disneysteve]

Toyota plant is in Kentucky? Yep they build the plants in the south, but a lot of parts are made in mexico and canada and then the assembly is in the us. With the free trade agreement parts and goods go back and forth.

We live in a global economy. Trying to deny that is a fool's errand. Manufacturing is NEVER coming back to this country. It literally can't. There are no domestic sources of a great many raw materials needed to make many of today's common products. They must be imported, even if the final product assembly occurs in the US.

[Fishindude77]

Manufacturing never left the US. A lot of the cheap, labor intense manufacturing did but there is still a huge manufacturing base in this country and output is higher than ever due to efficiencies and automation.
Automotive remains very strong in the US as we buy a great many of the worlds automobiles and they aren't cheap to ship across the globe. Nearly every foreign owned brand has plants in the US to take advantage of this.

I don't think we want all the hand labor, production line stuff that used to be here. It doesn't pay all that great and we couldn't staff the workforce anyway. We want the good, high paying stuff.

[disneysteve]

Manufacturing never left the US. A lot of the cheap, labor intense manufacturing did but there is still a huge manufacturing base in this country and output is higher than ever due to efficiencies and automation.
Automotive remains very strong in the US as we buy a great many of the worlds automobiles and they aren't cheap to ship across the globe. Nearly every foreign owned brand has plants in the US to take advantage of this.

I don't think we want all the hand labor, production line stuff that used to be here. It doesn't pay all that great and we couldn't staff the workforce anyway. We want the good, high paying stuff.

Agreed. Plenty of items are made here, though many are made with foreign parts or materials that simply aren't available domestically. For example, try building a cell phone from scratch without sourcing foreign materials.

As I've posted before, there is not a single car that is 100% made in the US. I think Tesla is the closest with about 87% BUT the way the law is written, parts designated as "American" include things coming from Canada (I'm not sure if Mexico counts in that also but Canada definitely does). So it's very likely that at least some of that 87% isn't actually from the US.

[ua_guy]

Just bought a JD mower. Something about proudly assembled in Horicon, WI rings a little hollow. Pretty sure 99% of the actual mower is made in Mexico or overseas. Not that it's low quality at all, it's just the economic reality of a global economy. Nobody made any meaningful money on that purchase except for the execs at JD. Not the assembler at the factory, not the truck driver, not the store manager at the dealer, not the guy who did the PDI. Just the JD execs and whatever cut the guy who owns the regional dealerships got. I'm fairly certain he owns a nice house(s) somewhere -- and there's nothing wrong with that. The expectation that if we move "JD mower" production entirely to the US that it will meaningfully affect wealth for the common man is a farce.

This is LITERALLY the reason so much manufacturing was outsourced. Because keeping it in-house wasn't providing the margins that the business owners wanted.

[james.hendrickson]

Just bought a JD mower. Something about proudly assembled in Horicon, WI rings a little hollow. Pretty sure 99% of the actual mower is made in Mexico or overseas. Not that it's low quality at all, it's just the economic reality of a global economy. Nobody made any meaningful money on that purchase except for the execs at JD. Not the assembler at the factory, not the truck driver, not the store manager at the dealer, not the guy who did the PDI. Just the JD execs and whatever cut the guy who owns the regional dealerships got. I'm fairly certain he owns a nice house(s) somewhere -- and there's nothing wrong with that. The expectation that if we move "JD mower" production entirely to the US that it will meaningfully affect wealth for the common man is a farce.

This is LITERALLY the reason so much manufacturing was outsourced. Because keeping it in-house wasn't providing the margins that the business owners wanted.

UA_Guy - Are you saying production made in the US WON"T increase jobs and manufacturing here? If so, can you explain why not?

[disneysteve]

UA_Guy - Are you saying production made in the US WON"T increase jobs and manufacturing here? If so, can you explain why not?

For at least the last few years we have had record low unemployment. Add to that the current anti-immigrant administration policies. Who exactly do you think is going to work in any new factories that do get built here?

Besides, no business owner in his right mind would even consider building here now given the utter chaos that is happening. It takes years for a new factory to go from concept to reality. Nobody is going to take on that risk when the future looks wildly uncertain. In fact, US manufacturers have already started announcing layoffs due to the tariffs (Stellantis, Whirlpool). What the administration is doing is incredibly destructive to US (and global) businesses.

[ua_guy]

For at least the last few years we have had record low unemployment. Add to that the current anti-immigrant administration policies. Who exactly do you think is going to work in any new factories that do get built here?

Besides, no business owner in his right mind would even consider building here now given the utter chaos that is happening. It takes years for a new factory to go from concept to reality. Nobody is going to take on that risk when the future looks wildly uncertain. In fact, US manufacturers have already started announcing layoffs due to the tariffs (Stellantis, Whirlpool). What the administration is doing is incredibly destructive to US (and global) businesses.

An ICE raid made national news yesterday. A roofing company north of here got busted. The workers lives are ruined and the company owners supposedly were falsifying I9 records on their behalf. The company will get a slap on the wrist and have to hire new staff. Everyone else gets sent to gitmo.

I can't help but think the strategy is completely misguided when we're going after WORKING people. They're doing their jobs, paying taxes. All of this is so wrong and improper.

[ua_guy]

UA_Guy - Are you saying production made in the US WON"T increase jobs and manufacturing here? If so, can you explain why not?

Unemployment is at historically low levels.

Do we need manufacturing, or do we need bleeding-edge industry job creation that will advance our position as world leaders? Harnessing fusion, or sticking velcro on door panels? Developing cancer cures, or flipping burgers?

We have plenty of average and below-average paying jobs that don't do anything but solidify our position as a mostly poor and uneducated nation.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Manufacturing never left the US. A lot of the cheap, labor intense manufacturing did but there is still a huge manufacturing base in this country and output is higher than ever due to efficiencies and automation.
Automotive remains very strong in the US as we buy a great many of the worlds automobiles and they aren't cheap to ship across the globe. Nearly every foreign owned brand has plants in the US to take advantage of this.

I don't think we want all the hand labor, production line stuff that used to be here. It doesn't pay all that great and we couldn't staff the workforce anyway. We want the good, high paying stuff.

this is something often overlooked and ignored. Do they want these types of manufactoring jobs?

Also a stupid question but often raised now is will AI and automation make it so sure we can do some manufactoring here but they will hire less people because it'll be cutting edge and need less workers? I have clients working for boeing that have been fired. They aren't going to be hired back either because with improved efficiency they need less labor. So now what?