Is $1M the new benchmark for retirement savings?

[Randomsaver]

Definitely. Jacob from Early Retirement Extreme initially retired on only 150k and had his living expenses down to 7k per year. Granted, it has been maybe 20 years since he did so, but that is still quite low.

7K 20y ago is about $28K in today's cost of living. I can see it working especially if no rent expense. That's even above what I have right now.

[james.hendrickson]

Interesting detail you chose to throw in. Why domestic? I think exactly the opposite, something like a Toyota Rav4 or a Honda Pilot. Something that adorns the top of Consumer Reports best of bland -list.

Well, its been a while, but my understanding is that is one of the findings from the Millionaire Next Door - millionaires drive good quality US domestic cars.

[Randomsaver]

Good for you. I was also overly cautious about retiring which is why I took a phased approach to it. I dropped to part time work in 2021 going from 36 to 20 hours (and still picking up extra shifts fairly regularly). Then I dropped to per diem in 2022 scheduling mostly 8 hours/week to test out that budget. Finally at the end of 2024, I decided to cut back to 4 hrs/wk which I did for a month or so before finally accepting that continuing to work. was ridiculous and I gave notice in February 2024. My final day was June 8, 2024 (our contracts required 120 days notice) though my last actual day of work was May 26.

I absolutely could have fully retired a couple of years earlier and we would have been just fine but since my job offered the flexibility to basically work whenever I felt like it, I stuck with it for a while.

Soone or later you have to spend otherwise the in-laws will enjoy your money. And the sad thing about it is they did not earn the money so there is no discipline formed to take care of it. All your hard work saving could be gone in a one bad night at the casino. I say you and wife spend down, while you can.

[disneysteve]

Well, its been a while, but my understanding is that is one of the findings from the Millionaire Next Door - millionaires drive good quality US domestic cars.

That book was published 30 years ago. Today, the real quality comes from the foreign car makers (though many of them are actually made in America, like my Camry). If you look at lists of the most reliable vehicles, I think you'll see a lot of foreign brands.

Here is Consumer Reports' list of the most reliable brands in order.
Subaru, Lexus, Toyota, Honda, Acura, Mazda, Audi, BMW, Kia, and Hyundai. Not a single American brand made the top 10.

[Fishindude77]

That book was published 30 years ago. Today, the real quality comes from the foreign car makers (though many of them are actually made in America, like my Camry). If you look at lists of the most reliable vehicles, I think you'll see a lot of foreign brands.

Here is Consumer Reports' list of the most reliable brands in order.
Subaru, Lexus, Toyota, Honda, Acura, Mazda, Audi, BMW, Kia, and Hyundai. Not a single American brand made the top 10.

This doesn't take into account that a huge percentage of automobile sales is pickups and SUV's.
This is where the American brands shine.

[disneysteve]

Sooo...lets talk about that. What do we mean by living large? Aren't most millionaires the "millionaire next door" type, where they drive modest domestic cars, live in normal sized houses and don't spend conspicuously?

I agree about conspicuous spending. That's kind of my point. There are a lot of multi-millionaires like us who aren't doing any of the things you see actors and athletes and business tycoons and politicians doing because "only" having a few million doesn't put you in that category at all. Most millionaires ($1-5 million at least) are living relatively mundane lives.

[disneysteve]

This doesn't take into account that a huge percentage of automobile sales is pickups and SUV's.
This is where the American brands shine.

The Consumer Reports rating looked at the entire brand lineup, not just the cars. Individual models from a brand may have scored high but the overall rating for the company pulled down their ranking.

Another ranking (US News and World Reports) specifically for the most reliable trucks had this as their top 10, looking at specific models.
GMC, Ford, Toyota, Toyota, Ram, Nissan, GMC, Hyundai, Nissan, and Honda.
American brands fared better here but still, 6 of the top 10 are foreign brands.

[Fishindude77]

The Consumer Reports rating looked at the entire brand lineup, not just the cars. Individual models from a brand may have scored high but the overall rating for the company pulled down their ranking.

Another ranking (US News and World Reports) specifically for the most reliable trucks had this as their top 10, looking at specific models.
GMC, Ford, Toyota, Toyota, Ram, Nissan, GMC, Hyundai, Nissan, and Honda.
American brands fared better here but still, 6 of the top 10 are foreign brands.

If you look at those brands listed, I'm only guessing, but I'd bet Toyota is the only foreign brand pickup listed that has significant sales numbers in the US.
You see very few Nissan, Hyundai or Honda trucks on the road comparatively.

[ua_guy]

Toyota is now the 3rd largest automaker in the USA, only trailing GM and Ford.

[Fishindude77]

Toyota is now the 3rd largest automaker in the USA, only trailing GM and Ford.

Here is what is a little difficult to understand.
How can foreign firms like; Toyota, Honda, Subaru, Nissan, etc. set up US based plants and be highly successful and profitable, and meanwhile you have US firms like John Deere, Chrysler and others moving operations to Mexico and elsewhere claiming that it's necessary to stay competitive?

[ua_guy]

Here is what is a little difficult to understand.
How can foreign firms like; Toyota, Honda, Subaru, Nissan, etc. set up US based plants and be highly successful and profitable, and meanwhile you have US firms like John Deere, Chrysler and others moving operations to Mexico and elsewhere claiming that it's necessary to stay competitive?

I don't know. Why?

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Here is what is a little difficult to understand.
How can foreign firms like; Toyota, Honda, Subaru, Nissan, etc. set up US based plants and be highly successful and profitable, and meanwhile you have US firms like John Deere, Chrysler and others moving operations to Mexico and elsewhere claiming that it's necessary to stay competitive?

Because of pensions? The unions for those american companies are downing the companies. But I know from watching the firms like toyota, honda, subaru, nissan, etc. They treat their workers royally without a union. A lot of foreign companies follow the retirement/health benefits of where they are from. But they do it because they want to treat workers well.

US Companies and workers don't respect each other. Instead they each fell the other is out to get each other. But i've seen when you treat your workers well they treat you well back. At least that's what I've noticed with americans working for foreign companies they LOVE them. The benefits are all better.

[disneysteve]

Here is what is a little difficult to understand.
How can foreign firms like; Toyota, Honda, Subaru, Nissan, etc. set up US based plants and be highly successful and profitable, and meanwhile you have US firms like John Deere, Chrysler and others moving operations to Mexico and elsewhere claiming that it's necessary to stay competitive?

One is mainly focused on quality. The other is mainly focused on profit. What the latter one doesn’t grasp is that if you focus on quality first the profit will follow. But if you focus on profit first the quality will never follow.

[ua_guy]

One is mainly focused on quality. The other is mainly focused on profit. What the latter one doesn’t grasp is that if you focus on quality first the profit will follow. But if you focus on profit first the quality will never follow.

My "guess" is it has to do with trade and access to supply chains. You can build Toyota pickups cheaper in Mexico and the US than you can in Japan with Chicken Tax, without NAFTA, and having to send the product across the ocean to sell it. It's worth noting Toyota and many other foreign makers have factories in the US, Mexico and Canada. Mexico is a huge source of parts/components and partial assemblies for completion in US factories as well.

The impoverished southern US has long been exploited for cheap, anti-union Labor. Mexico has been leveraged for the same, plus lax labor laws, and environmental regulations. Canada, for the exchange rate advantage, and to build cars domestically for Canada. Foreign car companies also use US plants for exporting their cars globally.

IMO, we're not producing more millionaires by getting more Americans working in factories. It hasn't transformed the South and never will. Our economy has moved beyond producing widgets.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

So a neighbor is a lifetime Boeing Employee (so far). Want to hear a terrible and sad story? Anyway about 20 years ago Boeing was frustrated with their manufactoring line. They called up Toyota and asked if they could send the manufactoring managers and experienced workers to show them how to properly run the line. After all Toyota had helped the big 3 automakers how to run their lines better. And the big 3 automakers apparently took it to heart and leaned into it. The biggest thing about "toyota way" is allowing anyone at anytime to "stop the line" in production becase something is wrong. That the lowest man on the line can pull the cord and stop the line. It's a matter of pride in quality control.

Anyway Toyota came and showed boeing how to do this. But boeing decided it wasn't worth it. Hence the missing door plug. The just pushed out airplanes instead of being allowed to stop the line.

A big part of profit probably comes from culture in running the company. They make profits from being good.