Investing for mom

**snafu** · 03-09-2016, 01:21 PM

Insufficient information...Sorry dad's health is deteriorating, how is he being cared for? Should he require professional care or assisted living, how will it be funded? Does he have LTC insurance? Can care be comfortably cash flowed? Is mom aboard to contribute to an investment plan for 5 years?

I too dislike annuities, they're usually more advantageous for the salesman than the annuitant. Overall how do your parent's assets affect/line up with probate? In our family there is an abundance of trust with gifts of money disbursed within allowable limits to keep estate taxes as low as possible. The donor is confident that if needed, money would be returned by all PDQ.

Mother needs to understand the risk if funds are contributed to stock, stock funds or bonds. If interest rates increase, bonds fund values drop. If the market drops, stocks lose value and fees paid are not recoverable. Money held in the bank is getting abysmally poor return, not keeping up with inflation and rising food costs for example. There is constant pressure from all sectors.

**green_goblin12** · 03-09-2016, 01:34 PM

Dad is still at home, but if things continue to decline this rapidly, he will require some outside care in the future. No LTC insurance. Any assistance would have to be paid out of their assets, which considering a nursing home, would deplete them rather quickly. I have not recommended gifting any money (to secure assets for Medicaid availability) due to the fact that the IRS looks back 5 years, and I doubt he will be around that long.

Having an account in her name would not be intended to "hide" money. I just thought it may makes things easier when dad passes.

**Fishindude77** · 03-09-2016, 01:49 PM

I think this sounds like a pretty reasonable plan.

**FLA** · 03-09-2016, 02:43 PM

sounds practical, sorry about your dad

we went to a pricey estate lawyer to establish a trust to try to protect their limited assets when/if Medicaid becomes necessary. I thought they had wrapped everything up so I stopped going. Then one day I came across the papers and realized the lawyer had not listened to the fact my mom has an end stage disease and she put her in the trust with my brother and I. What a mess and the whole purpose is defeated. I always thought those trusts kind of walked an ethical line in terms of getting Medicaid and I wasn't 100% on board with this. My lawyer friends pushed me, serves me right in the end.

**snafu** · 03-09-2016, 05:49 PM

I wan't trying to cover up assets, grandparents and parents can reduce probate and taxes with gifts within established parameters. I'm going on and on about services because if you make arrangements for some kind of investment program, you need to have a basic 5 year window to allow for vagaries in the market. The economy is roller coastering and 2016 is a presidential election year. Trump keeps saying how bad things are and the world believes his rhetoric even if it's not based on fact. China is getting nervous about whether there will be default in their $ 14 T loans to the USA.

Your mom needs to work out what she can and cannot do in caring for father. What services are available in her community? What are the entitlements for seniors? For dad's problems? What options? What qualifications for care? We have medical 'aids' in our community who are often new refugees who have passed English qualifications and taken a 3 month course. Government pays up to one hour every other day [I think] basic service, like help with shower, dress, basic meds from a well defined chart, assist somewhat with feeding. After one hour, patient pays for further service time. I know when disabled we can get 1 hr. simple housekeeping once a week for a $ 5. co pay. [vacuum, dust, load dishwasher, take laundry to washing machine location]

We followed one of our regular posters who suddenly was faced with a litany of ghastly parental problems. It sure made me look at things differently.

**FLA** · 03-09-2016, 06:03 PM

a good place to start is your county's Office of the Aging, they are a great resource for local and state programs.

Also, down the road, should dementia progress, Hospice provides care for end stage dementia patients and it is paid for entirely by Medicare. The criteria are an MD has to be able to say, "would I be surprised if this person passed in 6 mos?" and with all the complications of end stage dementia, the answer is often "no". Once on hospice, he would just have to stay eligible by showing decline as time goes by within certain parameters, such as wt loss. So dementia patients are often able to receive care for two years or more because the trajectory is slower than other illnesses. But many doctors are hesitant to refer, family members can do their own referral, a hospice doc reviews the case and then speaks to the patient's doc. My point is you don't have to wait til the last few months to get hospice. Just a thought for down the road.

There are also Medicaid funded programs to keep people home, called Nursing Homes Without Walls or Long Term Care Programs. These are pretty great programs. In NY they will even pay a family member who is doing aide-type care.

The last thing often helpful for dementia patients off the top of my head, are day care programs. A medical bus takes the patient to and from a specialized program of activities, nursing and PT/OT assessments and care, meals, hands on care, etc.

just a few thoughts should it become necessary

**TexasHusker** · 04-08-2016, 06:43 AM

My dad has dementia and is in an assisted living home that runs about $3900 per month.

One thing you want to do immediately is get power of attorney so that YOU are in complete control of their assets - otherwise things get difficult quickly.

**Therstrand83** · 04-11-2016, 07:50 PM

It is a good plan to invest in the business.

Investing for mom