Paper?

[Goldenladyfun]

It amazes me how many people accept the belief that the average person can protect his assets by investing in paper such as currency, stocks and bonds and any other kind of promise written on paper. Let me know if you agree with me or disagree.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

Seems possible from your name that you want to talk about gold. Thing is, you will eventually have to turn any gold back into cash in order to spend it (unless you are going to walk around with an accurate scale and a hard ceramic knife to shave off bits of your gold for someone who will accept it as payment). So, in the end, you will be recognizing that the cash of your society is the one to which you must convert your gold.

In the end, in times of desperate inflation, you have to liquidate into cash or barter away your gold. You will not necessarily find a buyer at the value-preserving rate you'd hoped for. Or, in bargaining situations, the supposed inflation beating, value preserving nature of gold may be found to be exaggerated.

I've mentioned before that I've known a few people whose gold (and jade and diamond) jewelry helped save their lives. But "gimme all your gold and I'll let you in this boat to cross the Pacific Ocean," doesn't really give you much advantage in bargaining. The person next to you in the boat maybe had only 10 grams of gold and you had 100 grams. It cost you ten times as much to get on the boat and you did not get some sort of anti-seasickness seat for your money either. You wasted 90% of your gold if we judge by what it cost that other person to get on the boat.

So, uh, I understand there are now multilevel marketing (MLM) schemes for selling gold. Is that what you're getting at?

[jpg7n16]

It amazes me how many people accept the belief that the average person can protect his assets by investing in paper such as currency, stocks and bonds and any other kind of promise written on paper. Let me know if you agree with me or disagree.

Completely disagree.

If what you're saying is true, then it seems just as foolish to trust in paper assets, like the title to your house or car, or paper documents, like your will or marriage certificate.

'We're married honey.' ; 'Well, I don't know, it's just a piece of paper.' - See how far you can get with that one. (oh and you don't need a ring to be married, but you do need documentation; just in case you wanna head that route)

A stock it a document of ownership of a piece of a company, just like a title is a document of ownership of a house.


Based on the premise of your argument alone, I would say that you have no clue what stocks and bonds truly are.

[disneysteve]

Based on the premise of your argument alone, I would say that you have no clue what stocks and bonds truly are.

I agree. The fact that you lumped together currency, stocks and bonds also shows a lack of understanding as those are 3 completely different things.

[Scanner]

As much as I am a silver bug, I am going to have to agree with the forum here.

It's more than just "paper" you own. . .it's a contractual obligation/ownership in an asset. You can't just easily discharge them.

You need to learn exactly what an Equity is and what the risks and rewards are to owning such.

And yes, when I sold all of my silver at $41.00/oz, I certainly accepted cash as my tender.

[Scanner]

If what you're saying is true, then it seems just as foolish to trust in paper assets, like the title to your house or car, or paper documents, like your will or marriage certificate.

'We're married honey.' ; 'Well, I don't know, it's just a piece of paper.' - See how far you can get with that one. (oh and you don't need a ring to be married, but you do need documentation; just in case you wanna head that route)

---- Good analogy. A marriage is a "paper partnership" - try telling to a judge you don't have the obligation of child support and the next thing you know, you'll be cellmates with Bubba.

[Frugal]

I agree with you partially. I don't think metals like gold are always the answer, but then again, I wouldn't want to broadly invest in paper currencies like the dollar (sinking) right now!

[97guns]

i will totally agree with you but i have paper because its a necessity. the only form of paper investment i have is a 401K that im waiting untill january 1st to close it down.

other than that its gold silver and lead for me

[thekid]

Smart men hold easily defendable land near a clean source of water, suckas own paper.

haha.

[jpg7n16]

Smart men hold easily defendable land near a clean source of water, suckas own paper.

haha.

And just how do we know these smart men actually own that land?

Oh.. through legal documents of ownership -- written on paper.


Possessing the land does you no good if you don't possess the paper title to that land. This is how people get evicted.


The idea that paper is not real is ridiculous.


Trees are just as real as rocks



You guys need to quit watching those gold informercials at night...

[jteezie]

Lets not forget about books and our paper based education system. All of those things are pretty useless too. Education is a worthless "investment."

[Goldenladyfun]

I worked with paper as a professional every day of my adult life. I have dealt with contracts, stocks, bond, bills of exchange,etc. for over 30 years. There seems to be a lot of confusion about paper. I hardly think this is the place and time to get into a long debate. I thought it was obvious that a piece of paper is only as good as the people who signed it. Would you accept a contract signed by a known criminal?

Let me thank you all for your opinions. I live a reclusive lifestyle in Europe after about 30 years working for major insurance companies and major banks. I take a peak out my cocoon once in a while to see what the general public thinks and wham, I see you have some very strong opinions. But not necessarily based on fact.

Let us start with some simple issues. First let us agree that Federal Reserve Notes are not money. They represent debt. Even that is a fraud since the actual notes do not meet the requirements to be called a note. But more basic than that, ask yourselves if it is a debt instrument (a note is a promissory note) who is the issuer and who is the borrower? The issuer is "The Federal Reserve Bank" (It is neither federal nor a bank. So we see that there is a problem right from the word go. The notes are not money they are debt instruments or a promise to pay. "Federal" is not federal it is a privately owned foreign corporation. There are no reserves. And it is not a bank.

Who is the borrower? The U.S. Treasury. That means you and me. We owe almost 15 Trillion Dollars plus interest of those things. And now the present regime has just allowed itself to print even more of those things to pay the interest on those things. And if we can not pay it back they will "foreclose". Doesn't that just make you happy since they can never be paid back? Kind of reminds me of that trick pimps play on their girls. Lend them money that they pay back by "working" knowing full well that the girls can never pay it back.

One commenter wrote that she could not imagine carrying around a bunch of gold to the store to buy something. But if your currency continues to be devalued you will need a wheel barrow full of cash to buy a loaf of bread. In fact your dollar has lost 97% of its value over the last 97 years. Yesterday one U.S dollar bought .72 Swiss Francs. You think I am kidding? Look it up

paraphrased:


"No State shall make anything but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts."

Article 1, Section 10, United States' Constitution

In 1913 when the Federal Reserve Act was fraudulently pushed through Congress, Congressman Charles Lindbergh stated: "This Act establishes the most gigantic trust on earth....When the President signs this Act, the invisible government by the money power, proven to exist by the Money Trust Investigation, will be legalized....The new law will create inflation whenever the trust wants inflation....From now on, depression will be scientifically created."

IS THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANK REALLY "FEDERAL"?

Most people assume that the Federal Reserve Bank is federal--that is, part of the united States' government. However, the Ninth Circuit Court put that issue to rest in 1982 when they adjudicated:

"Examining the organization and function of the Federal Reserve Banks, and applying the relevant factors, we conclude that the Reserve Banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of the FTCA, but are independent, privately-owned and locally controlled corporations." [Lewis vs. U.S., 680 F. 2d 1239, 1241]

"Most Americans have no real understanding of the operation of the international money lenders....The accounts of the Federal Reserve System have never been audited. It operates outside the control of Congress and....manipulates the credit of the united States." [Senator Barry Goldwater]

"Federal Reserve Notes are illegal" [US Representative Dr. Ron Paul]

IF THIS IS TRUE WHY HAVEN'T YOU HEARD ABOUT THIS?

We also have to ask ourselves why we were not taught the truth about the Federal Reserve in school.

HOW DOES THIS AFFECT YOU?

Congress initially defined a lawful money "dollar" as being and consisting of (at least) 371.25 grains of pure silver. Before 1965 anyone could exchange one paper dollar for one real silver dollar. However, in 1965 the United States' mint stopped minting silver dollars. When this occurred inflation began to skyrocket. Now it takes a whole fist full of paper dollars (i.e., "Federal Reserve Notes") to buy one real silver dollar. It now takes two working parents to support a family and the national debt is shooting over 14 trillion dollars! And this is not even counting the private debt by individuals and corporations, which is somewhere over 50 trillion dollars. Get the picture?

The paper and digital currency that bankers create out of thin air is backed by nothing. The more paper "dollars" they roll off the printing presses or digital "dollars" created by computers, the less each one is worth. Therefore, it takes more of 'em to buy the things we need, so the price of everything has to go up and up and up in endless inflation. Unfortunately, wages for most people will not increase fast enough to stay ahead of the game. But not to worry, the international banksters have created plastic "credit cards" to help you out (heh, heh, heh). Of course, they don't bother to tell us that they do not create enough paper/digital currency to pay off the debt plus interest so mathematically the economy will eventually collapse as has always occurred in history with paper currencies.

HOW DID ALL OF THIS GET STARTED?

Briefly, the Federal Reserve system was created by international banking families such as the Rothschilds, Warburgs and Rockefellers. This international banking cartel creates "money" out of thin air. It only costs them a few cents to print each Federal Reserve Note "dollar bill", and then they "bill" the American people for the full face value of the note. Then to add insult to injury, they charge us interest to borrow their so-called "money". If you or I did this, we would be arrested for counterfeiting and fraud. This system was instituted gradually, starting with the Civil War and culminating with the fraudulent passage of the Federal Reserve Act in 1913.

The passage of the Federal Reserve Act was unconstitutional because 1) the US Constitution prohibited "bills of credit" (i.e., paper notes) and 2) the US Constitution would have to be amended to go off the silver and gold coin standard for money. The US Constitution, the supreme Law of the Land, can only be amended pursuant to Article V. The US Constitution cannot be amended by statute. These unlawful actions by a Congress remind me of a quote by the honorable Alfred E. Neuman of Mad Magazine fame: "America is that land which fought for freedom and then passed laws to get rid of it."

The Federal Reserve is also a monopoly--in a country where monopolies are supposed to be illegal. The IRS deposits people's income tax checks directly in the Federal Reserve banks--not in the United States Treasury. Therefore, the IRS, an unconstitutional entity, is merely the collection agency for the international banksters. (BY THE WAY, CAN YOU SHOW ME THE LAW THAT SAYS YOU MUST PAY TAXES? See Aaron Russos video, "Freedom To Facism)) Over the years the IRS has become a tool of the elite banking families to financially attack and/or imprison people who expose the Federal Reserve. It is also a tool used by the D.C. elite to attack people who expose government corruption.

If you take out a paper dollar and look at it, you will notice that it states at the top of the "bill": "FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE". A "note" is, by definition, an "instrument of debt" and "evidence of debt". According to BLACK'S LAW DICTIONARY (Sixth Ed.) "MONEY" is defined: "In usual and ordinary acceptation it means coins and paper currency used as circulating medium of exchange, and does not embrace notes, bonds, evidences of debt, or other personal or real estate." Now this may come as a shock to some people, but those paper "Federal Reserve Notes" are not money and they are not dollars. Federal Reserve Notes are merely IOUs. There is nothing backing these "bills" except debt. However, people (voluntarily) use them as [instead of] money and as dollars. The key word is "as". (The smallest words can have the biggest meanings.)

Banks can create this phony "currency" out of thin air. Banks can loan out "currency" that they don't even have. When you apply for a loan from a bank, the bank does not have anything to back up that loan because they are allowed to loan out about seven to ten times more "currency" than they have on deposit. This is not mere speculation; this is a matter of court record, testimony under Oath, by a former lawyer for the Federal Reserve. In other words bankers create "currency" with just the stroke of a pen or the keystroke of a computer. These bankers then charge you "interest" to borrow this "currency", which is nothing more than some numbers typed on a piece of paper! If We the People ever did this we would be spending many years in a federal prison. Unfortunately, they do not print enough currency to pay the interest so more pseudo-dollars must be borrowed to pay off the interest, resulting in a unpayable, ever-increasing debt.

REAL MONEY IS GOLD & SILVER COIN

Article I, Section 10 of the United States' Constitution states: "No State shall...make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts." The united States' Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land and this Law has never been amended.

Article I, Section 8 states: "The Congress shall have Power...to coin Money". Notice that it states "coin" not "print". Anyone who reads James Madison's notes of the Constitutional Convention, The Federalist Papers, etc. will find that one of the purposes of the Constitutional Convention was to do away with paper money--entirely! Thus for the first 72 years from the founding of our nation the United States' Government only minted gold and silver COINS for money.

"It is apparent from the whole context of the Constitution as well as the history of the times which gave birth to it, that it was the purpose of the Convention to establish a currency consisting of the precious metals. These were adopted by a permanent rule excluding the use of a perishable medium of exchange, such as of certain agricultural commodities recognized by the statutes of some States as tender for debts, or the still more pernicious expedient of paper currency." [President Andrew Jackson, 8th Annual Message to Congress, December 5, 1836]

"The Central Bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the principles and form of our Constitution. I am an enemy to all banks, discounting bills or notes for anything but coin. If the American people allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." [Thomas Jefferson]

The nightmare that Thomas Jefferson predicted became painfully real during the Great Depression when the international banksters caused the foreclosure of untold numbers of homes, farms and businesses. As the national debt moves exponentially upwards, it appears that we are heading for another economic upheaval.

During the Constitutional Convention the delegates used the words "emit bills of credit" to refer to the issuance of paper (debt-based) currency. The framers of the Constitution were so adamant about prohibiting the printing of paper currency that one of the delegates, George Reed of Delaware, exclaimed that if they put the words "emit bills of credit" in the Constitution it would be "as alarming as the mark of the beast in Revelation!"

End

But lets not participate in "magical thinking". If truth is what you are after then turn off the T.V. Let me give you a few tidbits to think about. 1. You do not really own your houses. 2. You do not really own you vehicles. That is for another discussion.

I have tons of photos of worthless money, Let me know if you want to see them. I wish you all the best. Goldenladyfun

[Snodog]

This is why I have all my money denominated in coconuts.

Coconuts are easy to buy, easy to sell and have never been worth zero- and the timing may never be better.

[Goldenladyfun]

And they taste really good. Thanks

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

This is why I have all my money denominated in coconuts.

Coconuts are easy to buy, easy to sell and have never been worth zero- and the timing may never be better.

I sometimes read survivalist websites. Yesterday I read on a survivalist website an article about how to open a coconut! Make sure you know how to open your Bank of Coconuts.

"Compadre, cómpreme un coco ..."
‪Compadre, cómpreme un coco‬‏ - YouTube