We're on the brink; where will it go?

[GrimJack]

You don't really believe this do you? He is barely appealing to the most liberal members of the GOP. He can't even get his buddy John McCain to reach across the aisle. He's an eloquent speaker and he claims that he's trying to change the "culture" of Washington politics and it's nothing but smoke and mirrors for his real agenda which is big gov't. You need only look at the ridicolously pork filled stimulus to see that. It's filled with projects that the dems could never get done when they didn't have full control. Many of these projects have nothing to do with economic recovery.

The Bush admin. spent money like drunken sailors. What's "far right" about that? Obama is an influential speaker advancing the ideas of the far left that comprises most of those around him. Centrist, he definitely is not.

Yes, I do believe this. I am a Liberal and I hang around with Liberals - I consider Obama a Centrist and disapprove of some of his initiaves.

John McCain is not his buddy; John McCain is a tired old man who does not realize there is only so many times you can sell your soul before you lose all credibility.

Please point to the pork in the stimulus package - too many people scream pork but can't seem to actually point to it. Also please point what does not have anything to do with economic recovery?

So all the projects that Bush and the Repubs got done when they were in control is acceptable? That statement does not mean anything unless you believe that there is no difference between Dems and Repubs. If the people vote them into control, should they exercise that control?

Bush and the neocons are all we have to judge the conservatives by - I know that 'conservatives' always denounce their bad apples but you can't be saying they were liberals.

[Angio333]

No pork in the stimulus?

What about....the

50 billion (approx) going to the NEA?

About 4 billion going to Obama cronies, ACORN?

335 million for STD education and prevention?

75 million for smoking cessation?

There are 4 non-economy related pork in the bill.

Can you give three examples of Obama voting centrist or leaning right?

And yes, a ton of the stuff Bush put through was wrong.

[maat55]

A deflationary cycle is when no one spends because they believe that the price will be cheaper tomorrow. If no one buys, business lay off workers (or go out of business); when workers have no jobs, they do not spend money or wait until the price is cheaper which means that business have to cut back employees because they are not selling.

Yadda,yadda,yadda - it is a cycle which is why it is called a deflationary cycle; it is pretty much the opposite of an inflationary cycle. Both require some sort of intervention to break the cycle. An inflationary cycle is where everyone borrows money now thinking that they will repay the loan with cheaper money later; as more money enters the system, prices go up and people borrow more money knowing that today's dollar will only be worth .50 next year.

Yadda,yadda,yadda. I understand that i have grossly simplified how this works (and that, since I am not an economist, I do not have a complete grasp of the details).

The drunken sailor is drinking coffee right now. He still has to go to work, get paid, then go back to the bar. Government attempting to give him a few bucks and send him to the bar is not useful, he does not want to drink.

But, if during lunch time, the bar accross the street say's: beer .50, he might have a few for lunch.

[GrimJack]

No pork in the stimulus?

What about....the

50 billion (approx) going to the NEA?

Did a search for NEA - no match

About 4 billion going to Obama cronies, ACORN?

Did a search for ACORN/acorn/Acorn - no match

335 million for STD education and prevention?

searched for std/STD - no match

75 million for smoking cessation?

I searched for 'smok' and found this:

Provided further, That of the amount appropriated under
25 this heading $500,000,000 shall be used to carry out evi-
VerDate 0ct 09 2002 04:02 Jan 15, 2009 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00154 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 C:\TEMP\ECREC05.XML DAVD
January 15, 2009 (4:02 a.m.)
H:\FY 2009 ECON RECOVERY\ECREC05.XML
l:\VA\011509\A011509.004.xml
155
House Approps Cmtte
1 dence-based clinical and community-based prevention and
2 wellness strategies and public health workforce develop3
ment activities authorized by the Public Health Service
4 Act, as determined by the Secretary, that deliver specific,
5 measurable health outcomes that address chronic and in6
fectious disease rates and health disparities, which shall
7 include evidence-based interventions in obesity, diabetes,
8 heart disease, cancer, tobacco cessation and smoking pre9
vention, and oral health, and which may be used for the
10 Healthy Communities program administered by the Cen11
ters for Disease Control and Prevention and other existing
12 community-based programs administered by the Depart13
ment of Health and Human Services:

Is this what you are referring to? I am going to have to say - no reference found. What you have listed is pretty much talking points with no reference to reality.

There are 4 non-economy related pork in the bill.

No you haven't.

Can you give three examples of Obama voting centrist or leaning right?

This is pretty nonsensical - who gets to determine what the term centrist means? Why would you think Obama has voted right-leaning?

[GREENBACK]

Please point to the pork in the stimulus package - too many people scream pork but can't seem to actually point to it. Also please point what does not have anything to do with economic recovery?

Are you for real? I would answer you on this but Angio333 already did. Read what is in this thing and think for yourself rather than blindly following the words of the Obamacrats. Do you really not know who NEA and ACORN are? If that's the case you shouldn't even be arguing any points here.

[GrimJack]

The drunken sailor is drinking coffee right now. He still has to go to work, get paid, then go back to the bar. Government attempting to give him a few bucks and send him to the bar is not useful, he does not want to drink.

But, if during lunch time, the bar accross the street say's: beer .50, he might have a few for lunch.

I did a quick google for 'drunken sailor' and only found reference to the sea shanty - oddly enough, there is an interesting version on youtube
featuring Jack Sparrow.

Sorry, I am slow - could you please explain the relevance? And how does a sailor go across the street during his lunch break? He's an effing sailor; he works on a ship; there ain't no streets on the water.

[GrimJack]

Are you for real? I would answer you on this but Angio333 already did. Read what is in this thing and think for yourself rather than blindly following the words of the Obamacrats.

I have the bill on another window and will search for anything you want. Do you think for yourself or are you a 'dittohead' echoing Rush's talking points. Give me something to work with here.

But while we are on the topic - most artists are small businessmen who are struggling to get along in this economy along with everyone else, how is stimulating them pork?

Doctors who search for cures STDs are serious researchers who are working for the betterment of mankind - why is that pork?

The ACORN thing is just bull pucky.

Do you have a problem with trying to keep kids, young adults, etc from smoking? The money goes to researchers who are people too - how is that pork?

[maat55]

I did a quick google for 'drunken sailor' and only found reference to the sea shanty - oddly enough, there is an interesting version on youtube
featuring Jack Sparrow.

Sorry, I am slow - could you please explain the relevance? And how does a sailor go across the street during his lunch break? He's an effing sailor; he works on a ship; there ain't no streets on the water.

Obama is taking the Keynesian approach that failed during the Depression and during the 90's in Japan. We need an inhouse production replacement for imports.

My position is that we need a national goal to be energy independent in 5 years. Building nuclear plants, refineries, coal plants. We import 1 trillion a year in oil. This would be the WWII replacement as apposed to the weak useless approach of the administration.

[GREENBACK]

I have the bill on another window and will search for anything you want. Do you think for yourself or are you a 'dittohead' echoing Rush's talking points. Give me something to work with here.

But while we are on the topic - most artists are small businessmen who are struggling to get along in this economy along with everyone else, how is stimulating them pork?

Doctors who search for cures STDs are serious researchers who are working for the betterment of mankind - why is that pork?

The ACORN thing is just bull pucky.

Do you have a problem with trying to keep kids, young adults, etc from smoking? The money goes to researchers who are people too - how is that pork?

I think for myself. I don't need Rush or anyone else to think for me. I don't have a problem helping people and have thousands of dollars of receipts to prove it. I don't do this for any tax break but apparently my charity will be forced now.

All the crap in this plan may be important in good times but what's critical now is to get the economy back on it's feet and treating STD's and preventing people from smoking doesn't do that. You proved my point. Pet projects riding along with a lame and ineffective package. This will stimulate the economy in what kind of way?

[GrimJack]

I think for myself. I don't need Rush or anyone else to think for me. I don't have a problem helping people and have thousands of dollars of receipts to prove it. I don't do this for any tax break but apparently my charity will be forced now.

All the crap in this plan may be important in good times but what's critical now is to get the economy back on it's feet and treating STD's and preventing people from smoking doesn't do that. You proved my point. Pet projects riding along with a lame and ineffective package. This will stimulate the economy in what kind of way?

So, you are admitting that you do no distinguish between pork and stimulus in the package? Getting the people back on their feet is the goal of this package - did you read the quote that included 'smoking' cessation? It was a very minor part of a package that gets money into science research. There is even a 'reality' check after one year to see if the money is doing its job.

So Read the effing package and point out the lame and ineffective items in the package. I mean, if you can't point to something specific, I might just think you do not have a clue and might even blowing smoke out your butt. All you seem to have is vaguely worded diatribes with no substance.

[GrimJack]

Obama is taking the Keynesian approach that failed during the Depression and during the 90's in Japan. We need an inhouse production replacement for imports.

My position is that we need a national goal to be energy independent in 5 years. Building nuclear plants, refineries, coal plants. We import 1 trillion a year in oil. This would be the WWII replacement as apposed to the weak useless approach of the administration.

The Keynesian approach did not fail - the tax cuts in the middle of the New Deal failed. Don't even bring up Japan - their society so different from ours there is no real comparison.

[GREENBACK]

So, you are admitting that you do no distinguish between pork and stimulus in the package? Getting the people back on their feet is the goal of this package - did you read the quote that included 'smoking' cessation? It was a very minor part of a package that gets money into science research. There is even a 'reality' check after one year to see if the money is doing its job.

So Read the effing package and point out the lame and ineffective items in the package. I mean, if you can't point to something specific, I might just think you do not have a clue and might even blowing smoke out your butt. All you seem to have is vaguely worded diatribes with no substance.

$50 billion to the national endowment for the arts. Defend that please? While you're at it show me 800 billion more ways this bill is going to help. We've already shown the numerous ways it won't.