Boeing Strike

[LivingAlmostLarge]

So i was reading the boeing machinist union want more than what they've been offered. 2/3 rejected the proposal because they want their pension back. The pension 10 years ago they froze and no longer enrolled people. The machinist are finding out that life isn't easy when you are responsible for retirement. But now less than 1% of workers have a pension defined benefit.

Some places have cash balance pensions, where you get $x from saving and they give it to you. But most do not have a defined benefit.

What do you think will happen?

I think the pension will be a non-starter and then boeing will say screw it and move the jobs to south carolina.

[disneysteve]

People holding out for a traditional pension to return need to wake up and look around. Other than government workers, pensions are all but extinct. They should be pushing for a high quality 401k with a generous company match and HSA funding.

[bjl584]

They won't get their pension back.
They will have to settle for a higher pay scale and maybe better medical care.

[ua_guy]

But, why not?

Just because pensions are unpopular with companies doesn't mean they can't be run successfully, and there is some obvious benefit for the employer in retaining talent over a long period.

I'm doubtful that they'll be successful in negotiating the return of their pension. Last I heard, Boeing was willing to grant the 30%+ wage hike, which is an admirable win for the workers. Not my company, not my job...I wish them all the best!

[kork13]

My brother & his wife both work for Boeing, on the defense aerospace side (not the under-fire commercial aerospace). They're both white collar, logistics oversight & project manager, so they're pretty distant from this strike... but I really don't get what the union is complaining about. With a 30% wage hike & the truly generous 401k that Boeing offers, I personally wouldn't worry about a pension -- my brother mentioned at some point that the company auto-contributes a percentage of salary plus matches contributions up to 10% of salary ... or something like that. That's stinking phenomenal! My SIL's father (also a Boeing PM in his day) was under their pension, which was also very good, and since his sudden/unexpected death has been a godsend for his still-healthy wife. But a pension vs. 401k with outstanding terms? What's the problem?? Yes, I know, alot of people choose not to participate in 401k programs. But they're choosing to leave good money on the table!

[ua_guy]

There are attempts to vilify both parties, both the worker and the employer, one being greedy, the other being cheap. The wage hike is overdue given the cost of things in the region. Do we really know if those 401k terms filter down to machinists in a union, or is there a break between union-represented and corporate? There's more than this than I'm sure I know.

It's been a while since those workers have been out, and they aren't covered under existing unemployment laws in WA state, so I'd think many of them would be itching to come to agreement soon. Both sides, really, this is costing Boeing a fortune too.

[kork13]

The Boeing strike is over -- the machinists union accepted a deal with a 38% raise, plus a $12k signing bonus & renewed annual bonuses. For perspective, by the end of this new contract, the average machinist's annual income will rise to $119k from $75k. The deal also adds some side benefits, but does not restore the pension plan.

In other related news ... have you guys heard about Boeing's 10% staff furloughs (across 2 rounds of layoffs)? My brother/SIL are definitely at risk with those, but at least for now they're optimistic that they'll make it past this current round (they'll know for sure next week). He said that while the new CEO is playing the fall-guy for the layoffs, he's pretty sure they were planned before the previous guy got the boot.

But between the strike, the new CEO, and now the furloughs ... In my brother's words: "It's been chaos" and "It's been wild lately." It's not often that you see such a monolith of a company so thoroughly on fire. My brother/SIL have been looking for a smooth exit from the company for the last year or two ... but his wife just recently got a promotion into management (overseeing multiple project managers) so they're gonna try to stick around for at least 3-4 years to get some of the management experience under her belt before they strike out. But they definitely want out. The ship's not sinking, but it's definitely taking on water & listing to starboard.

[ua_guy]

A friend of mine has been wrapped up in the furloughs, but not laid off. For his sake, I was glad to hear an agreement with the union was reached. Hopefully the company can find a good way forward.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

But, why not?

Just because pensions are unpopular with companies doesn't mean they can't be run successfully, and there is some obvious benefit for the employer in retaining talent over a long period.

I'm doubtful that they'll be successful in negotiating the return of their pension. Last I heard, Boeing was willing to grant the 30%+ wage hike, which is an admirable win for the workers. Not my company, not my job...I wish them all the best!

Because pensions can't be quantified. You don't really know how long people will live. What you will be on the hook for so the actuarial is making a guess. It's hard to say nowadays with people living longer. So the "pension" is a debt on the company and why companies moved away from it. Sort of like why some companies moved away from vacation to unlimited. No more debt on the books.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Friend said no more furlough but instead just layoffs. That's what the strike lead to. He's on the commercial side management. They decided screw it just pull the plug. It's not going to be pretty even after the settlement. And the question is why settle for something so similar as the offer 2 weeks ago?