Toxic Work Environment

[bjl584]

Has anyone ever dealt with a job that became toxic over time?

Some backstory.
I have been at my current employer for over 19 years, and I used to enjoy going to work.
About two years ago things started to change, and not for the better.
It was multiple things, but we lost a few key tenured people who had a lot of knowledge about the business.
This caused a lot of holes and a lot of lost knowledge.
Work started to get dumped onto other people.
The company itself started to become more corporate and a lot of the perks started to get stripped away.
Finally, covid exposed a lot of the shortcomings of the company, and a lot of work and stress was placed on the people who kept reporting to work (I am one of them)

The final straw was the recent promotion of a new OPS director.
This individual is attempting to assert themselves as the boss through some abusive tactics.
I don't need micro-managed, and I certainly don't want to have 100 things put on me, only to do 99 of them correct and be brow beaten for the 1 thing I did wrong.
Respect is earned, and no one is respecting this individual due to how they are treating the staff.

I keep wrestling in my head that maybe things aren't bad, and that maybe they are just different, and I'm just not used to them.
But I keep ending up back in the same place, and that is that the environment is toxic and abusive.
I dread going there.
I'm contemplating a pay cut just to find anything else and get out.

I could afford a pay cut, especially if it were temporary until i found something better to do.
20 years with a place is just hard to let go of.

Has anyone else dealt with this?
What did you do?

FYI:
Talking to HR is a non starter.

[disneysteve]

Totally a reason to head for the door and move on. Life is too short to stay in a bad situation like that. Update your resume and start putting out feelers to let folks know you're looking.

[james.hendrickson]

Why is talking with HR a non-starter? Usually management has to know there are problems before they can fix them.

[myrdale]

I think you'd be surprised by the number of people who can relate to your post.

My best advice is start reading Dale Carnegie (How to Stop Worrying & Start Living) and Marcus Aurelius (Meditations), these have both helped me.

We tend to get comfortable in our positions. I've been in the same job, my first "real" job since 2005. I know I am valuable to the company. I also know I am replaceable, and truth be told I could make more else where, easily.

I tend to take a lot pride in the work I do, and I've been told by my manager on a couple of occasions that I care to much. That it's only a "job".

With toxic people, there are a couple of those, but they are everywhere. I wouldn't leave a job I liked on their account. Look up the traits of people with narcissum or sociopaths and psychopaths, and then realize there are alot more of them out there than you'd expect. Look up the 5 laws of Stupid People by Carlo Cipolla, that one will give you a different outlook on those around you.

If you're really fed up start looking for another job. In the mean time, when they push, push back. If they are abusive towards you, call them out on it. One of the best lines I've come up with was "I promise I'll never speak to you as rudely as you're speaking to me right now".

[jenn_jenn]

Yes, I have dealt with a toxic workplace and it was a terrible experience I’d wish on no one. I had senior leadership support and they were trying to address the issues but the toxicity was at the very top in the C-suite and there was only so much that could be done. The TLDR version is I left and got a better job and am so much happier for it.

In this job market, there’s a good chance you can find a better job with better pay. If you’re not happy with your current company, trust your gut and vote with your feet.

[bjl584]

Why is talking with HR a non-starter? Usually management has to know there are problems before they can fix them.

I suppose it's just another part of everything that is currently wrong there.
HR seems to be more a corporate mouthpiece than a place where you go to discuss problems and issues at the workplace.
Things that I've said in confidence to HR have come back to bite me later.

[bjl584]

I think you'd be surprised by the number of people who can relate to your post.

My best advice is start reading Dale Carnegie (How to Stop Worrying & Start Living) and Marcus Aurelius (Meditations), these have both helped me.

We tend to get comfortable in our positions. I've been in the same job, my first "real" job since 2005. I know I am valuable to the company. I also know I am replaceable, and truth be told I could make more else where, easily.

I tend to take a lot pride in the work I do, and I've been told by my manager on a couple of occasions that I care to much. That it's only a "job".

With toxic people, there are a couple of those, but they are everywhere. I wouldn't leave a job I liked on their account. Look up the traits of people with narcissum or sociopaths and psychopaths, and then realize there are alot more of them out there than you'd expect. Look up the 5 laws of Stupid People by Carlo Cipolla, that one will give you a different outlook on those around you.

If you're really fed up start looking for another job. In the mean time, when they push, push back. If they are abusive towards you, call them out on it. One of the best lines I've come up with was "I promise I'll never speak to you as rudely as you're speaking to me right now".

thanks for the reading list and the advice

[Jluke]

HR is in place to protect the company. Not the employees.

[ua_guy]

If you used to enjoy it, and you stuck it out for another two years, and it doesn't look like things are going to change, move on. Unless there's a super huge incentive to stay for an upcoming incentive or one that's about to vest, life is just too short to be miserable at work.

[MonkeyMama]

Oh wow, I can relate to this so much. Short answer: move on.

My story is that I was at a great job for 17 years. Just a micro small company and the owner was mid-70s by the end. Probably early on other employees were worried about the age of the owner and lack of succession plans, but it was a recession-proof niche and really ideal while raising kids. I didn't care so much. But I knew I would never stay once he retired, which I think made the whole thing easier than it would otherwise be.

In the end, owner became ill suddenly and could no longer work. Was a *lot* of (seasonal) work that got dumped on me. I was fine with it though, he had bent over backwards to help me during a rough time in the past. I knew I wasn't going to stay long-term, but was willing to help get through a pinch and give it some time.

In the end they sold to some super scammy company (I've since heard a bajillion similar stories; fraud is quite common in small business sales). It was really weird and confusing because they were trying to shelter us from the drama. The end result was no one was in charge. That was very clear the entire time. When you have an exceptional boss and culture, and then you end up with this vacuum, it all collapses very fast. The only two people who tried to fill the void were the least qualified, so that just made it worse and more toxic.

I didn't quit at first because I had a lot of loyalty to my boss and clients. Nothing will change that. Would do it all over again today. But my patience was wearing thin and my loyalty only went so far. The big problem I had was that all my mentors and people I looked up to I worked with, and they all thought I was being dramatic. My gut was screaming to run for the hills. I learned a lesson, that is for sure. (People really don't like change, and have an amazing ability to look the other way re: insanity).

My co-worker quit after talking me off the ledge (doubling my work load again!?). I stayed another month or two because the job market was terrible. Skills in high demand and no lack of jobs, but the pay was absurdly low. ??? I figured I'd have to take a 20% salary cut and then would keep looking for another job. In the end, I quit without another job lined up. It got even worse, so I abandoned ship. I share because the market is so different today. I am now getting emails about jobs that pay 50% more than anything I saw in 2018. It's a good time to be a job seeker.

I was okay with taking the pay cut temporarily. Every job I interviewed for, would have accepted and just kept looking. The exception was the job I ended up with. It was a big pay cut yes, but they paid more than anyone else and take good care of their employees. I ended up getting my compensation back to where it would have been (if my last job had stayed ok), though the job is much easier, less responsibility, lower stress, and less hours. We live well below our means so I didn't really care too much either way. I would have taken the lower stress, less hours, etc. for a little less pay.

I was okay with and looking forward to taking some time off between jobs, but it just didn't work out for me. Landed my current job on the last day of my old job.

[kork13]

I've dealt with an entire organizational culture (from top to bottom, 3500+ people) that not only exhibited toxicity, but it built, bred, and tacitly encouraged toxic behaviors in leaders & personnel at every level. It's terrible to live through, and I completely understand where you're coming from. Short answer is that you need to get away from it, one way or another.

Does this toxicity exist across the company, or is it isolated to a few particular individuals with outsized influence? If isolated, perhaps you can get a transfer within the company to a different department where the toxicity isn't present. If it's company-wide, better to pull chocks & go. Find a better place where you'll be valued & treated with respect. Anything less is unacceptable.

[bjl584]

I've dealt with an entire organizational culture (from top to bottom, 3500+ people) that not only exhibited toxicity, but it built, bred, and tacitly encouraged toxic behaviors in leaders & personnel at every level. It's terrible to live through, and I completely understand where you're coming from. Short answer is that you need to get away from it, one way or another.

Does this toxicity exist across the company, or is it isolated to a few particular individuals with outsized influence? If isolated, perhaps you can get a transfer within the company to a different department where the toxicity isn't present. If it's company-wide, better to pull chocks & go. Find a better place where you'll be valued & treated with respect. Anything less is unacceptable.

It appears to be company wide at this point.
It's very evident in my department, but I see it creeping into other places.
There is definitely a lot of ego replacing logic when it comes to business decisions.
That, and there is a lack of knowledge as to the mechanics of how our business works.
Everything is grand ideas and pipe dreams.
When it comes to turning those ideas into reality, there are only a small number of people remaining who know how to accomplish it.

In talking with other tenured coworkers (people with over 10 years with the company) the message is the same. Something is wrong here. Things are going in the wrong direction. I'm worried about the future.

[rennigade]

HR is in place to protect the company. Not the employees.

My workplace is transparent about this. They dont care about the employees and its very obvious. Other places that I have worked at least give the illusion that they care about the employees. At the end of the day, their interest is the company itself.

[Like2Plan]

Sorry you are going through this turmoil. I watched DH from the sidelines with a couple of situations over the years. One situation-it took DH about 4 months to quietly put his exit plan together (I think it helped him a lot knowing there was an end in sight. Also, he did it on timing that was advantageous to him). He then gave them his 2 weeks notice. They were a little shocked. DH was much happier after he moved to the new employer.

I don't think you will be able to cause any change to the company culture as it has evolved. What you have to decide is how long can you put up with the BS?

[bjl584]

Sorry you are going through this turmoil. I watched DH from the sidelines with a couple of situations over the years. One situation-it took DH about 4 months to quietly put his exit plan together (I think it helped him a lot knowing there was an end in sight. Also, he did it on timing that was advantageous to him). He then gave them his 2 weeks notice. They were a little shocked. DH was much happier after he moved to the new employer.

I don't think you will be able to cause any change to the company culture as it has evolved. What you have to decide is how long can you put up with the BS?

I can't put up with it much longer.
But I too have been crafting an exit plan.
I just don't have clarity on when it will be complete so I can pull the trigger.
I assume I'm going through, although on a lesser scale, when someone is ready to retire and just can't make the move to actually do it.

I'd be moving to a different job, and I've been applying, but no offers yet.
The new job may be temporary or more permanent, that would depend on a lot of things.

I have some upcoming expenses, so I need to wait it out until around May 1 to see how my savings will be impacted.
In the meantime, I'm looking for jobs, saving money, and watching expenses.
I have no debt besides a mortgage, so expenses are fairly low besides recurring bills and day to day stuff.