Toxic Work Environment

[myrdale]

In talking with other tenured coworkers (people with over 10 years with the company) the message is the same. Something is wrong here. Things are going in the wrong direction. I'm worried about the future.

You might also be interested in the Pareto Principe, basically that 20% of the people contribute 80% of the work. As those vital few get their fill and move on, it will be a downward spiral until something major changes.

[disneysteve]

It appears to be company wide at this point.
It's very evident in my department, but I see it creeping into other places.
There is definitely a lot of ego replacing logic when it comes to business decisions.
That, and there is a lack of knowledge as to the mechanics of how our business works.
Everything is grand ideas and pipe dreams.
When it comes to turning those ideas into reality, there are only a small number of people remaining who know how to accomplish it.

In talking with other tenured coworkers (people with over 10 years with the company) the message is the same. Something is wrong here. Things are going in the wrong direction. I'm worried about the future.

I think L2P stated it well: it sounds like the company culture has changed. It's not one person or one department. It's throughout the company and by design, from the sounds of it.

Fine tune your exit plan and get out of there.

[bjl584]

You might also be interested in the Pareto Principe, basically that 20% of the people contribute 80% of the work. As those vital few get their fill and move on, it will be a downward spiral until something major changes.

I'm definitely living this scenario.
We lost a few key people about a year ago, and is amazing how much knowledge was lost and how many processes imploded in on themselves.
I'm one of the last ones remaining in my department who has a deep understanding of the business.
I'm sure if I left there would be some struggles in certain areas to get things back up and running.

I should feel thankful that I'm in a spot where I can afford to cut ties and take on something new without it impacting me fianncially.
There are a lot of people there who feel like me, but they are "stuck."
Taking any sort of pay cut just isn't in their cards.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Yep DH quit his job in a blaze of glory in August 2015. We had a pseudo plan. I say pseudo because we moved cross country, sold our house, took our kids/dog, drove, and had no idea about where we were going to live. He had visited the city once in 2012 for a job interview of 3 days, I had visited once in 2000 for 3 days. We literally had no clue what we were going to do. His plan was take a year off and career shift and then hope he got a job that paid a minimum of $125k (a large 50%+ paycut). We knew we could live on that and save and cost of living was working in our favor.

Around March 2015 his new VP of department (hired in May 2014) cleaned house and fired 25 of the 30 people department. DH managed to stay on since they kept 1 person at every level and he was mild mannered and very congenial. The guy had been abusive for most of the year berating them, telling them they didn't work hard enough, and they should be grateful for a job. He also said things like "you have cancer? You'll be rated on what you've produced during your working" to DH's old boss (she had a reoccurance of the breast cancer she had in 2005 in when met her). She was lovely and the layoff was the best thing ever. Gave her time with her girls. So DH came home after the annoucement and said he was done. He said "we're out of here. I have no friends at work. Everyone is laid off. I wanted a package but they didn't give it to him." It would have given us medical and severance for a year (which we could have used). But he said pull the trigger.

We sold the house 6 weeks later (listed and sold over a weekend). We closed 4th of july and left for his month long sabbatical. His friends were still working and training the new staff hired by the VP (his people you know?). They gave them 3 months to work then laid off and severance. DH avoided questions of what we were doing in the month other than our epic road trip. Everyone said what house are you buying and where are you living. His answer "we are looking for a rental". Packed up and drove too a new city end of July, found a place, he flew back 8/1 gave 2 weeks notice the moment he walked in. His few friends and collegues from other departments couldn't stop laughing. He'd basically been paid to move. That changed the rules of the sabbatical but it's was very classic. Toxicity is allowed by upper management and it can ruin a company.

DH would have stayed until we left because we knew our time was limited. But you should look at moving on. To us? We didn't know what the future held but or what job he would take but we thought what's the worse that could happen?

[scfr]

I can't put up with it much longer.
But I too have been crafting an exit plan.
I just don't have clarity on when it will be complete so I can pull the trigger.
I assume I'm going through, although on a lesser scale, when someone is ready to retire and just can't make the move to actually do it.

I'd be moving to a different job, and I've been applying, but no offers yet.
The new job may be temporary or more permanent, that would depend on a lot of things.

I have some upcoming expenses, so I need to wait it out until around May 1 to see how my savings will be impacted.
In the meantime, I'm looking for jobs, saving money, and watching expenses.
I have no debt besides a mortgage, so expenses are fairly low besides recurring bills and day to day stuff.

Do you have any accrued vacation time that you could use to take it easy for a bit plus work more on the exit plan? Once the plan is in place, you may find the situation more tolerable for as long as you need to stay.

Another one for the reading list, if you haven't read it already: Who Moved My Cheese? by Spencer Johnson.

[GoodLiving]

So my workplace has been toxic to greater and lesser degrees since I've worked there. I've been there about 13 years now and aside from my department coworkers, I mostly enjoy my job. I've come to realize that nothing will change. We used to have a scapegoat but they since were strongly encouraged to retire which is good but now the main culprit is roaving and looking for the next one. Thankfully, there some structural hierarchy that keeps me a bit safe. We also have had the best supervisor in the entire time I've worked there finally starting to pay attention to our department and give us the support that we need. Right now, I've got golden handcuffs even within my industry so I don't think I could go somewhere else, I'm hoping that I can stay "cheerful and stupid" for the next 3-5 years when I can go on phased retirement. While my work ethic has always had me do my best at work, I realize this environment won't change until the dynamics do and if it has more staying power than I do...that's okay. If retirements come sooner than mine, it will drastically change things and I don't know how it can only get better. You all might wonder why I stay around, I've gotten to the point that I can delay gratification so well and 3-5 years will feel like nothing, so my eye is on the prize. In the meantime, I do my best at work and focus on enjoying my life outside of work while I practice and dream about retirement. I also keep in mind that it could be so much worse....I could be one of them.

[bjl584]

Do you have any accrued vacation time that you could use to take it easy for a bit plus work more on the exit plan? Once the plan is in place, you may find the situation more tolerable for as long as you need to stay.

Another one for the reading list, if you haven't read it already: Who Moved My Cheese? by Spencer Johnson.

I currently have a couple weeks that I could use if I needed to.
I'm familiar with that book, but I've never read it. It's basically about accepting change correct?

I've actually thought about selling my house and moving to my cabin in the mountains.
An extreme answer to my problem, but it is a possibility.
I'd be going there with no debt, a seven figure portfolio, and nearly no cost of living.
I could get a job at the local lumber yard and be perfectly content.

More realistically, I need to stay here, save up a bit more cash, then make my move to a lateral paying position or even something for slightly less pay.

[ua_guy]

I currently have a couple weeks that I could use if I needed to.
I'm familiar with that book, but I've never read it. It's basically about accepting change correct?

I've actually thought about selling my house and moving to my cabin in the mountains.
An extreme answer to my problem, but it is a possibility.
I'd be going there with no debt, a seven figure portfolio, and nearly no cost of living.
I could get a job at the local lumber yard and be perfectly content.

More realistically, I need to stay here, save up a bit more cash, then make my move to a lateral paying position or even something for slightly less pay.

It sounds like moving to your cabin is what you want to do. Why is that extreme? Why is that unrealistic? Living remotely / cabin life doesn't get easier as you age. You may find later that you need to be closer to healthcare and living in something that doesn't require a lot of work, like heating with wood, or clearing snow. What if you looked for something that let you live in your cabin now, either remote from your cabin, or where you could work from office space in the town nearest your cabin? (I have no idea how rural it is).

[MonkeyMama]

I assume I'm going through, although on a lesser scale, when someone is ready to retire and just can't make the move to actually do it.

It sounds like more of a slow boil than my experience. & I can still relate to the feelings. (In my case, things were "something is not right" to "everyone quit" in just 4 months).

But I wanted to share if it was helpful at all, in my case it was very clearly grief. Even knowing that this job was never going to last forever (and was obviously going to end sooner than later), nothing prepares you for the grief even when you know it is coming. In my situation my employer was dying, the business died because of that, and then everyone in my office got sick (one ended up with cancer), etc. But because of all the grief, I was very conscious that even just working through the work/business feelings, it was dealing with a loss.

& there was an element if I stayed in the exact same type of position, I knew the hours would be absurd or I wouldn't be paid as well. I dealt with it by going in a different direction. So there's the grief of loss of 20 year relationships and a great work environment, and then also the grief of losing an irreplaceable job. All of that is just a lot of grief to deal with. & of course denial is an early stage of grief.

I half heartedly looked for other jobs for about 8 months but it just didn't fall into place until I gave my notice and let it go. Probably that mental shift helps a lot. Lord knows I would have had a bajillion times more mental energy for a job search *after* the job ended, but the magic wand seemed to be making a firm decision and giving my notice. That was when the better opportunities started to pop up. (& I am sure you can still make a firm decision without necessarily having to give your notice. If you need more time to prepare or want to secure another job first.)

[bjl584]

It sounds like moving to your cabin is what you want to do. Why is that extreme? Why is that unrealistic? Living remotely / cabin life doesn't get easier as you age. You may find later that you need to be closer to healthcare and living in something that doesn't require a lot of work, like heating with wood, or clearing snow. What if you looked for something that let you live in your cabin now, either remote from your cabin, or where you could work from office space in the town nearest your cabin? (I have no idea how rural it is).

There is currently no internet service there. I could get satellite TV, but that's about it.
Internet is available at the local library, about 10 miles away.
So, currently a remote job wouldn't be possible. I'd have to work somewhere in the area where I actually reported to my place of employment.
This situation might improve in the future as infrastructure in the area improves.

There are some logistical challenges as far as selling or storing all my stuff.
I'd be moving from a 2000 sqft house with a 1000 sqft detached garage into a 800 sqft cabin.

My GF is tied to her current job for the next 2 years, and transferring wouldn't be possible.

Other than the above, nothing is really stopping me.
We have discussed retiring there, and we've discussed doing some remodeling to make it not so "off the grid."
Adding full HVAC, a washer/dryer, building a garage, etc.

[bjl584]

It sounds like more of a slow boil than my experience. & I can still relate to the feelings. (In my case, things were "something is not right" to "everyone quit" in just 4 months).

But I wanted to share if it was helpful at all, in my case it was very clearly grief. Even knowing that this job was never going to last forever (and was obviously going to end sooner than later), nothing prepares you for the grief even when you know it is coming. In my situation my employer was dying, the business died because of that, and then everyone in my office got sick (one ended up with cancer), etc. But because of all the grief, I was very conscious that even just working through the work/business feelings, it was dealing with a loss.

& there was an element if I stayed in the exact same type of position, I knew the hours would be absurd or I wouldn't be paid as well. I dealt with it by going in a different direction. So there's the grief of loss of 20 year relationships and a great work environment, and then also the grief of losing an irreplaceable job. All of that is just a lot of grief to deal with. & of course denial is an early stage of grief.

I half heartedly looked for other jobs for about 8 months but it just didn't fall into place until I gave my notice and let it go. Probably that mental shift helps a lot. Lord knows I would have had a bajillion times more mental energy for a job search *after* the job ended, but the magic wand seemed to be making a firm decision and giving my notice. That was when the better opportunities started to pop up. (& I am sure you can still make a firm decision without necessarily having to give your notice. If you need more time to prepare or want to secure another job first.)

Yes. Sharing your experience was very helpful. thank you.
I know what you mean by half heartedly looking. I keep mentally holding back, but I think things are starting to shift. Just me posting this thread is a big step to get it out and ask the community a "what would you do question."
Ideally, I find another job first, and I spend a bit more time really fine tuning an exit strategy.
Sometimes my instincts want me to just march into work tomorrow morning and quit on the spot in a mic drop style moment.
But, cooler heads are winning out so far.
The more sensible thing to do is to have all my ducks in a row before pulling the trigger.

[MonkeyMama]

Sometimes my instincts want me to just march into work tomorrow morning and quit on the spot in a mic drop style moment.

Honestly, doesn't sound bad to me. *grinning emoji*

(Darn, emoji isn't working).

[Snydley]

My DH was in a horrible work culture for a loong time. He's hesitant to make changes as he's a quieter person and I think feared going into an even worse situation for some reason, and he had a short commute. It made him miserable during many of his off work hours as well, knowing the situation he was in. He couldn't bring himself to look for another job while he was there, it just got to be too much and he just walked in and quit (gave his two weeks). Someone on one of his teams said "yea but you are going to get XX and XX done, right" and he said, "nope". Everyone was asking where he was going (because who quits without another job?). He actually told someone "well, I'm rich and I don't have to work. I was doing it because it used to be kinda fun, but it's not anymore"

[disneysteve]

It made him miserable during many of his off work hours as well

I think people tend to underestimate this. If you are miserable at work, chances are you aren't miserable JUST at work. It is likely affecting you outside of the job too. Maybe you're not sleeping as well. Maybe you have dreams about work. Maybe you're just not as fun to be around as usual. Maybe you're not eating as well as you used to. That stress doesn't disappear when you walk out at the end of the day.

he just walked in and quit (gave his two weeks). Someone on one of his teams said "yea but you are going to get XX and XX done, right" and he said, "nope". Everyone was asking where he was going (because who quits without another job?).

I did this when I left my first practice. It had been getting worse and worse and I finally had enough (I totally forgot about that toxic job until now). I went in and quit. Later that da, my boss told me to not bother coming back. I would have done my 2 weeks if needed, but that's never made sense to me anyway. Why, as an employer, do you want someone there who has already mentally checked out? They're just going to poison the well.

No, I did not have a job lined up. That's what our EF was for, right? I spent 3 wonderful months "retired". We went to Vegas for a week for a conference that was already booked. We took a spur of the moment 12-day trip to Disney World. And the rest of the time I sold on ebay full time until a new job found me, because I certainly didn't spend much time looking for one.

[bjl584]

I did this when I left my first practice. It had been getting worse and worse and I finally had enough (I totally forgot about that toxic job until now). I went in and quit. Later that da, my boss told me to not bother coming back. I would have done my 2 weeks if needed, but that's never made sense to me anyway. Why, as an employer, do you want someone there who has already mentally checked out? They're just going to poison the well.

No, I did not have a job lined up. That's what our EF was for, right? I spent 3 wonderful months "retired". We went to Vegas for a week for a conference that was already booked. We took a spur of the moment 12-day trip to Disney World. And the rest of the time I sold on ebay full time until a new job found me, because I certainly didn't spend much time looking for one.

I remember you telling this story.
Part of my exit strategy is to build up as much cash as I can.
I may follow your lead should things get too bad and I have enough cash to support a sabbatical.