Millennials Own Just 3% of the National Wealth.

[riverwed070707]

Suck it up buttercup before the Tesla bot and self driving cars takes away the low income wages leaving even more people in the dust. If the top 15 billionaire CEO gave away all their money to everyone in the US, so a 1 trillion dollar giveaway...that's about 3k/person. Does that solve the problem yet?

CEOs can make whatever they want. I don't spend my life looking at them with envy nor does it affect how I invest and save my wealth in the slightest. But you do you..keep looking for excuses. Country full of people who don't realize how good they have it. My relatives in China are 10x worst in that competitive landscape where all their classmates can ace college math tests with their eyes closed in middle school. They get paid pennies on the dollar doing way higher skill jobs than people here with longer hours. I don't see nearly as many cry babies over there as I do here. I wonder why China is such an economic threat to the U.S..hmmm..can't think of one reason why...

Gross. I have lost so much respect for you over this post. Fighting for fair wages does not make people cry babies and just because some places have things worse off doesn’t mean we can’t want and fight for better. There are many economic barriers to getting ahead in this country and if we’re going to live up to our reputation of giving everyone a chance at the American dream some things have to change. I will always fight for that and never accept “it is how it is”

[Fishindude77]

My CEO makes more than $20M/yr and is compensated separately (in sums 5-10 times the average employees salary) for a number of boards he sits on outside of his responsibilities for our company. Is he worth a boatload more because of his ownership shares - yes. But he certainly isn't paid $1 or nothing. Oh and our company doesn't offer stock options because we aren't publicly traded.

Ope. ETA: did a little digging. CEO was making $60M/yr when he was Chairman and CEO. The role split into two a few years back because he took a secondary job at our parent company making $20M. Unclear how or if the original $60M is divided between them or what they individually currently make for their contributions. Point being.... why are we still paying entry level employees $12/hr? FWIW, this is not a rant on my company - its more to point out that the oversimplification of CEOs don't take a salary simply isn't valid and the wage gap between the highest and lowest paid employees is not OK.

I'm just curious how in the heck you would ever know how much $$ the CEO of a privately held company makes? The only place salaries get shared to the public are typically government agencies.
I'm on the board of a publicly traded firm and all we share are the annual company financial performance reports.

In support of the highly compensated CEO, there are not all that many people capable of doing those jobs. They are often responsible for thousands of employees, and it's their head on the chopping block if the company doesn't hit financial goals. Also, anyplace that has a highly paid CEO like that most likely has a whole lot of very well paid managers at all levels working underneath them.

What's a "fair wage" for the burger flippers, cashiers, ditch diggers and widget assemblers of the world?

[Singuy]

Gross. I have lost so much respect for you over this post. Fighting for fair wages does not make people cry babies and just because some places have things worse off doesn’t mean we can’t want and fight for better. There are many economic barriers to getting ahead in this country and if we’re going to live up to our reputation of giving everyone a chance at the American dream some things have to change. I will always fight for that and never accept “it is how it is”

Damn. I lost respect from some random person on the internet. Nooooooooo

Seriously, over emphasizing a systematic problem as the true barrier to prosperity is cancer, especially here. It keeps people from trying because why bother until the US somehow change its complete economic system?

Anyways, this is not the first time I shared my view on this. Coming from almost every economic/social disadvantage besides skin color, we find having that American dream is easy compared to our home country. Started from poverty, not knowing the language, went to the worst elementary school in my city, was a B student at best in HS and college, and didn't do anything special besides...not spending every cent I made and hit that American dream by 30. My parents worked 60hrs per person, didn't spend every cent they made, hit the American dream 10 years after coming to the US. They started out with a -3k in debt.

Did it take some effort? Of course. Being in an apartment full of roaches in 100 degrees weather because my parents didn't want to pay for A/C was no fun. Was it say as much effort as a someone would have in a war torn country with no running water? Bahahahahahahahaha. You guys won the lottery for being here already. Now you guys are just complaining about the taxes you need to pay on the lotto winning.

[riverwed070707]

Damn. I lost respect from some random person on the internet. Nooooooooo

Seriously, over emphasizing a systematic problem as the true barrier to prosperity is cancer, especially here. It keeps people from trying because why bother until the US somehow change its complete economic system?

Anyways, this is not the first time I shared my view on this. Coming from almost every economic/social disadvantage besides skin color, we find having that American dream is easy compared to our home country. Started from poverty, not knowing the language, went to the worst elementary school in my city, was a B student at best in HS and college, and didn't do anything special besides...not spending every cent I made and hit that American dream by 30. My parents worked 60hrs per person, didn't spend every cent they made, hit the American dream 10 years after coming to the US. They started out with a -3k in debt.

Did it take some effort? Of course. Being in an apartment full of roaches in 100 degrees weather because my parents didn't want to pay for A/C was no fun. Was it say as much effort as a someone would have in a war torn country with no running water? Bahahahahahahahaha. You guys won the lottery for being here already. Now you guys are just complaining about the taxes you need to pay on the lotto winning.

It doesn’t have to be either or. We can work hard and prosper and also choose to not make it so hard for the next generation. It’s the difference between getting to the end of the drawbridge to the castle and cutting the last thread so no one else can cross vs using your success to build a sturdier bridge so more people can make their way across. It’s about recognizing that our country is controlled by the wealthy and corporations while also seeing we have the power to change that. It’s not looking down on those who haven’t made it out of a cycle of poverty and blaming their choices instead of recognizing their barriers and being willing to stand on their side when the stays quo wants to hold them down. The wealthy have literally pitted the middle class against the poor to hold their place of power and so many people buy in without seeing they’re just a pawn. Your perspective is very narrow - “I made it so anyone can do it” is not problem solving

[riverwed070707]

I'm just curious how in the heck you would ever know how much $$ the CEO of a privately held company makes? The only place salaries get shared to the public are typically government agencies.
I'm on the board of a publicly traded firm and all we share are the annual company financial performance reports.

In support of the highly compensated CEO, there are not all that many people capable of doing those jobs. They are often responsible for thousands of employees, and it's their head on the chopping block if the company doesn't hit financial goals. Also, anyplace that has a highly paid CEO like that most likely has a whole lot of very well paid managers at all levels working underneath them.

What's a "fair wage" for the burger flippers, cashiers, ditch diggers and widget assemblers of the world?

My company is not publicly traded but our holdings company is. CEO compensation is published in the annual 10k. Not disputing that there are many well compensated execs below them - in fact that’s even more reason it wouldn’t be burdensome to offer our lowest paid employees a living wage.

what’s a fair wage is location dependent but I can tell you it’s not $7.25 an hour hardly anywhere in the country

[ua_guy]

Fair wages for minimally paid workers? Say no more. Plenty of research has been done in that realm. I like this:

https://cepr.net/this-is-what-minimum-wage-would-be-if-it-kept-pace-with-productivity/

I have not yet read Dean Baker's book, but I already found myself nodding in agreement to the 5 points he outlines in the title, Rigged, about how policy was consciously changed to put downward wage pressure on ordinary workers (paraphrased).

[Singuy]

Fair wages for minimally paid workers? Say no more. Plenty of research has been done in that realm. I like this:
https://cepr.net/this-is-what-minimu...-productivity/

I have not yet read Dean Baker's book, but I already found myself nodding in agreement to the 5 points he outlines in the title, Rigged, about how policy was consciously changed to put downward wage pressure on ordinary workers (paraphrased).

Not a single word about automation, which is the real reason why workers "produce more" today than ever before. I know for a fact my pharmacy cannot serve 800+ pts with only a staff of 11+10 technicians without our tube transport system, our computer system, and nurses having to physically walk down to our floor to give us our scripts. Give it another decade, we'll have 200 people producing the same amount of cars that 20k people produce today.

[ua_guy]

Not a single word about automation, which is the real reason why workers "produce more" today than ever before. I know for a fact my pharmacy cannot serve 800+ pts with only a staff of 11+10 technicians without our tube transport system, our computer system, and nurses having to physically walk down to our floor to give us our scripts. Give it another decade, we'll have 200 people producing the same amount of cars that 20k people produce today.

Ok, let's talk about automation and how that's affecting wage growth for millennials.

"Automation Is Not to Blame for the Growth of Income Inequality"

https://itif.org/publications/2021/08/10/automation-not-blame-growth-income-inequality

And here's the original paper from EPI referenced in the article above:

https://www.epi.org/unequalpower/publications/automation-myth/

[Singuy]

Ok, let's talk about automation and how that's affecting wage growth for millennials.

"Automation Is Not to Blame for the Growth of Income Inequality"

https://itif.org/publications/2021/08/10/automation-not-blame-growth-income-inequality

And here's the original paper from EPI referenced in the article above:
https://www.epi.org/unequalpower/pub...tomation-myth/

Mind giving a TDLR on that second article? Sounds like a bunch of word salad to me. Remember I was only a B student

Also it make total sense that automation investment has slowed because

1. U.S companies heavily invested when automation was first introduced
2. They are reaping the rewards today obviously by increase in productivity as saturation sets in
3. Automation sees more of a boom outside of this country due to globalization

I don't see how this is an argument for anything.

[ua_guy]

Mind giving a TDLR on that second article? Sounds like a bunch of word salad to me. Remember I was only a B student

Also it make total sense that automation investment has slowed because

1. U.S companies heavily invested when automation was first introduced
2. They are reaping the rewards today obviously by increase in productivity as saturation sets in
3. Automation sees more of a boom outside of this country due to globalization

I don't see how this is an argument for anything.

TLDR; It says millennials aren't the problem with sluggish wage growth in the last 20 years. It has nothing to do with a lack of effort, and very little to do with computers/automation, for any explanation why wage growth has not been consistent with productivity or even inflation. Long story short, it's economic policy that is failing the majority of its own US citizens.

[Singuy]

TLDR; It says millennials aren't the problem with sluggish wage growth in the last 20 years. It has nothing to do with a lack of effort, and very little to do with computers/automation, for any explanation why wage growth has not been consistent with productivity or even inflation. Long story short, it's economic policy that is failing the majority of its own US citizens.

Every paragraph starts with something along the line of Automation doesn't explain why wages are flat...but then the body is full of word salads that's very difficult for the average reader to understand. After the paragraph I'm not even sure if they explained why. So I am not looking for what the article is saying, I am looking for the explanations to why they believe so if you can help explain the meat of the reasoning, not their conclusions.

For example,..is this even english?

"Schmitt (2013) show that changes in occupational employment shares (whether an occupation expands or contracts employment relative to other occupations) are not related to changes in relative wages by occupation (whether wages in that occupation rose or fell relative to wages in other occupations). That is, one would expect that occupations that expand (contract) would have rising (falling) wages relative to other occupations"

[disneysteve]

For example,..is this even english?

"Schmitt (2013) show that changes in occupational employment shares (whether an occupation expands or contracts employment relative to other occupations) are not related to changes in relative wages by occupation (whether wages in that occupation rose or fell relative to wages in other occupations). That is, one would expect that occupations that expand (contract) would have rising (falling) wages relative to other occupations"

Makes perfect sense to me. He is saying that you would expect to see rising wages in growing fields but that's not what is actually happening.

Wage growth in this country has been stagnant for many years and the wage gap between average workers and executives has been expanding for years. That's what is behind so many people struggling to keep up, whether you accept that reality or not.

[Singuy]

Makes perfect sense to me. He is saying that you would expect to see rising wages in growing fields but that's not what is actually happening.

Wage growth in this country has been stagnant for many years and the wage gap between average workers and executives has been expanding for years. That's what is behind so many people struggling to keep up, whether you accept that reality or not.

OKay good, you understand the article, can you please explain what is the reason why automation and technology has nothing to do with wages and productivity?

[disneysteve]

OKay good, you understand the article, can you please explain what is the reason why automation and technology has nothing to do with wages and productivity?

I haven't read the article. I was just responding to the part you quote. I'll try and take a look later.

[ua_guy]

Every paragraph starts with something along the line of Automation doesn't explain why wages are flat...but then the body is full of word salads that's very difficult for the average reader to understand. After the paragraph I'm not even sure if they explained why. So I am not looking for what the article is saying, I am looking for the explanations to why they believe so if you can help explain the meat of the reasoning, not their conclusions.

For example,..is this even english?

"Schmitt (2013) show that changes in occupational employment shares (whether an occupation expands or contracts employment relative to other occupations) are not related to changes in relative wages by occupation (whether wages in that occupation rose or fell relative to wages in other occupations). That is, one would expect that occupations that expand (contract) would have rising (falling) wages relative to other occupations"

The article is written in English. And this is exactly the problem with understanding Economics.

In the 50's and 60's, there was a huge influx of automation, but wages continued to grow. Then, 30 years later, automation was blamed for stagnating wages because growth of automation in the 80's and 90's. For a variety of reasons: Skills and education were believed to be deficient in ways that hurt wages. Not only did the opposite happen with wages in the 90's compared to the first growth of automation, but the killer is data from the last 20 years. Automation hasn't really grown, yet wages continue to languish even despite growth.. Removing the force of automation growth should have seen increases in wages. So it would really would appear that the two aren't linked as believed.

Thats my take on it. If Steve reads it too I’d be interested to hear his thoughts.