we are focusing too much on STEM (oh, neato term) education -> money isn't everything

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Unfortunately I'm not sure this election solved the problem the "working" middle class wanted. They are hoping to gain ground on the rich but I'm not sure the policies that will be implemented will really help them. And taking away Obamacare and possibly privitizing SS and Medicare will probably only increase the divide between the haves and have nots.

As far as stem? It sucks that we are need to push our children into those fields if they want to succeed. Truth is I agree you should like it, or I've met many people who after going to college and doing it leave or get fired/laid off from tech companies and never get another job. Maybe because it does show in your work.

But it appears that only STEM jobs are paying well enough to bridge the gap. And those who don't fall further behind with student loans and lack of pay.

I don't know how to bridge this. Because look at teachers. We need more teachers. Yet the pay is so low that many don't want to do it. or have lots of debt getting to be a teacher. How do we solve the issue for a field you have to go to college for and yet is VERY underpaid relative to amount you have to invest for it?

[corn18]

I don't know how to bridge this. Because look at teachers. We need more teachers. Yet the pay is so low that many don't want to do it. or have lots of debt getting to be a teacher. How do we solve the issue for a field you have to go to college for and yet is VERY underpaid relative to amount you have to invest for it?

Supply and demand should take care of this all on its own. If teachers are underpaid and leave to do something else, then the market would pay them more to fill the slots. That's how it works in the private sector. I'm short manufacturing engineers right now and I am willing to pay a 40% premium to the market to get a good one. Still can't attract one. So now I'm off to a headhunter.

If teachers are underpaid, that means they should be quitting and there should be a shortage of teachers which should result in offers of higher pay which should result in hiring more teachers (or reducing the turnover rate). It really isn't that complicated.

I don't believe in paying someone more money just because they want more money. I will gladly pay you more for something that brings value to my company. I just upped all of my manufacturing folks pay by 13% because the lack of quality hires and high turnover were killing me in HR costs and increased scrap, hours per unit and rework. In exit interviews and employee satisfaction surveys, they said they were leaving to make more money at Kohls. So I'm fixing that.

If we were short teachers we would pay them more. If they weren't performing, we would let them go. I think the public sector and union aspects of teaching make it difficult if not impossible to top grade teachers. Once you're in, if you want to stay in you get to stay in. That's much less of a problem in the private sector.

Just my thoughts.

Tom

[pflyers85]

I don't know how to bridge this. Because look at teachers. We need more teachers. Yet the pay is so low that many don't want to do it. or have lots of debt getting to be a teacher. How do we solve the issue for a field you have to go to college for and yet is VERY underpaid relative to amount you have to invest for it?

Are teachers really underpaid anymore? At least where I live the average starting salary for a teacher (Bachelors only) is around $45K. With masters and 10 years its up to around $65-$75K depending on the district. Some top out at the highest step at or just under $100K. Not to mention these teachers pay next to nothing for fantastic medical plans. As far as the investment to become a teacher, I can't speak for other states but many of PA's state schools are well known for excellent teacher programs so tuition really can be as high as you make it. Most school districts offer tuition reimbursement for continuing education.

I don't think the issue is the pay with teachers as much as it is failed administration and bad education policy setting teachers up to fail. It is institutional and the way kids are coddled by administration and the absentee parenting is a real problem, especially in the inner city school districts.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Actually Tom friends who in their 30s and young teachers have told me they would love to work not union and pay based on performance. More than a couple would love the opportunity to make more but that's not how it works. I'm not sure how to fix not just teaching but other low wage jobs like social work. There are quite a few jobs with low salaries that people do because they love it but how to fix the salary? You say leave. But I think there is a shortage to begin with so getting more people doesn't seem to be happening because salaries aren't going up.

[corn18]

Actually Tom friends who in their 30s and young teachers have told me they would love to work not union and pay based on performance. More than a couple would love the opportunity to make more but that's not how it works. I'm not sure how to fix not just teaching but other low wage jobs like social work. There are quite a few jobs with low salaries that people do because they love it but how to fix the salary? You say leave. But I think there is a shortage to begin with so getting more people doesn't seem to be happening because salaries aren't going up.

Then something is broken and supply and demand do not apply. If the jobs are needed, then higher pay and benefits should be able to fill those jobs. I just don't have the data to determine what is broken. My gut tells me this isn't about pay and raising pay will just result in paying more for the same substandard education system. That would be folly, indeed.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I'm not sure what the answer is. Where we used to live teachers were better paid that most states and the schools were better. So there is a lot of merit to raising pay. But at the same time I keep hearing from my friends who are "young" teachers they feel unfairly compensated because of seniority and tenure. So how to deal fairly with everyone? But the same goes with social workers and other say non-profit jobs that aren't lucrative. Some people have a passion and it doesn't pay much.

But as sv2007 started what happens when we don't have people going into these fields? Who will do them? Even now it doesn't seem like we have enough.

DS you can weigh in that isn't it true we don't have enough primary care dr? Dr don't do it because it doesn't pay enough? Or not enough prestige? So how to change this? Increase number of dr? Which medical schools aren't pumping out enough. It seems to me to mitigate this instead we are using NP, PA, and nurses to triage instead and do simple prescribing and Dr will be allowed to do specializations.

[MooseBucks]

Are teachers really underpaid anymore? At least where I live the average starting salary for a teacher (Bachelors only) is around $45K. With masters and 10 years its up to around $65-$75K depending on the district. Some top out at the highest step at or just under $100K. Not to mention these teachers pay next to nothing for fantastic medical plans. As far as the investment to become a teacher, I can't speak for other states but many of PA's state schools are well known for excellent teacher programs so tuition really can be as high as you make it. Most school districts offer tuition reimbursement for continuing education.

I don't think the issue is the pay with teachers as much as it is failed administration and bad education policy setting teachers up to fail. It is institutional and the way kids are coddled by administration and the absentee parenting is a real problem, especially in the inner city school districts.

I'm in PA also and our teachers are paid what I consider more than fair. They are also get tuition reimbursement for going back for masters/drs and get an increase in pay for each block of credit hours they complete.