Ethics - Black & White or Gray

[DaveInPgh]

The idea of this topic came about after reading the following article about the Wells Fargo lawsuits. Do you feel that conducting oneself in an ethical manner is a black & white situation or do you consider it a gray area?

No doubt there are many examples of individuals that solely made a decision to do something unethical. The ethics of the action may have not even entered their mind.

But what about people that are pressured to do something they know is wrong, but their livelihood depends on compliance?

Have you ever been in type of situation? If so, did you do the "right thing" or did you go along with what you were told?

The below article is about the Wells Fargo employees that did the "right thing" and the result from doing so.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/wells-fargo-workers-claim-retaliation-for-playing-by-the-rules/ar-BBwFOoF?li=BBnb7Kz

[DaveInPgh]

My answer is that is definitely a gray area and I have been put in that type of situation and did what I was told.

In a prior position at my current company, on multiple occasions I was instructed to hide or mislabel work. Each time it was because of a client was scheduled to tour the area. The handling of the work was not specific to the particular client coming in, but to make it appear that we were current with processing. So the work was either moved to a supply closet until after the tour or tags that dated the work were changed.

Instructions that did not originate with my immediate boss. I hung out with other supervisors from different departments, and they had similar experiences.

For me, I knew it was unethical but it did not cross the line enough for me to put my career at risk.

[james.hendrickson]

Dave,

A lot of life isn't clear cut. I spent some time working for the Department of Defense in Afghanistan. In particular, I was working a contract to collect data about the Afghan population so the military could better craft information warfare messages.

The objective of the contract was a noble one - get good data so the insurgency would be crushed and the population would support the central government. However, frankly it involved subjecting them to military force and propaganda, which at its core is grossly immoral.

I also got paid a base salary of $180,000 to do it.

I know this is a little bit off topic - you were asking more about being forced to do something in return for a salary - but I wanted to pipe up anyways.

Regarding the Wells Fargo example - I feel congress and the FBI should come down hard, very hard, on Wells. That kind of behavior undermines public confidence in the banking system and discourages healthy participation in the economy. We need to have zero tolerance for it.

[disneysteve]

Funny that you post this today. Just last night, I did a physician ethics study. The answer options for every question were Yes, No and It Depends.

Ethics is absolutely not black and white. What is "right" can totally depend on the situation.

Have I ever done anything that I felt wasn't the right way to go? Of course I have. Given the exact same circumstances, I'd probably do it again.

[Fishindude77]

There are lots of things we could do every day that are perfectly legal, but that doesn't mean they are the right thing to do. Ethics is one of those "follow the golden rule" things. Treat others how you would like to be treated, and behave how you would like others to behave.

[GoodSteward]

I have a strong conscience about these things. Of course, I also am somewhat biased due to my religious preference (ie lying is sin). I try to be very honest on taxes, on applications, and in normal day to day stuff. I know I have done some things that were not ok, but I don't make a habit out of it.

As for situations like this, I couldn't do it. I couldn't just make up information to cover myself. If my supervisor asked me to lie just to cover him I would word it as best I could to not incriminate him, but I couldn't flat out lie. I have learned to use my words wisely since I have a such a strong conscience. Often for me it's best just to not speak if there is any questionable information.

[corn18]

I can't think of anything I've done in the last 25 years or so that I would consider unethical. But my moral compass may be calibrated differently than others. My Mormon friends are mortified by some of my behavior while other folks see me as a straight arrow. When I was younger, I was a bit free and loose with my interpretation of ethical behavior. I'm a lot more black and white nowadays.

Tom

[GoodSteward]

I can't think of anything I've done in the last 25 years or so that I would consider unethical. But my moral compass may be calibrated differently than others. My Mormon friends are mortified by some of my behavior while other folks see me as a straight arrow. When I was younger, I was a bit free and loose with my interpretation of ethical behavior. I'm a lot more black and white nowadays.

Tom

Well, I guess it doesn't take much to mortify the devout ones. Such as Mormons are not supposed to drink caffeine. I was drinking Sweet Tea with one once and he asked me "How is your strong drink?" as a joke. (Strong drink is bible lingo for alcoholic drinks lol) I would be interested at what you do they are so upset over.

[phantom]

I was once asked to write a script that would make up some data that would be displayed on the web site I was working on. The data was nearly meaningless, and I don't think it would have hurt any of our customers to have seen false data. But, in my mind, it would have been lying, and lying is something I refuse to do lightly (or at all under most circumstances). So, I explained my thoughts and refused to do it. When I saw that a ticket had been created despite my objections, I put my objections on the ticket. I was reprimanded for calling the act lying, but in the end, the ticket went away, neither I nor anyone else had to make up the data. I still don't think I was wrong to call the act lying, but if something similar comes up in the future, I'll be more diplomatic with regards to how I put my objections in writing.

[Fishindude77]

On several occasions I have had customers request that we over-price an insurance claim project to cover their deductible. While I'm sure many do this, I'm not going to start down that road.

[disneysteve]

On several occasions I have had customers request that we over-price an insurance claim project to cover their deductible. While I'm sure many do this, I'm not going to start down that road.

I think that happens more often than not.

I know the shop my family always used when I was growing up always "covered" the deductible.

[DaveInPgh]

Fishindude77, like Steve, I know of repair shops that do it.

So a follow up to your post, how would you handle it if it was your car and they offered to pad their estimate to save you the deductible?

[disneysteve]

I thought of another common one. Paying cash for something to get a discount because the person can avoid paying taxes on the cash transaction.

[Fishindude77]

I'm in commercial building business, these were for storm repairs, fire repairs, etc.

Yes, I suspect the auto body shops do this as well.
Knock on wood, I've not had an auto claim in a real long time but I would prefer to keep things on the up & up and pay my fair share as agreed to when I purchased insurance. People stealing like this is one reason insurance is so expensive. You can buy a very low deductible plan if you want to minimize out of pocket.

[GoodSteward]

I was offered to have that done once at a body shop when I had an accident. I felt bad about it, so I didn't do it. It would have saved me 1000$, but it would have been insurance fraud.