What do you think of labor unions?

[QuarterMillionMan]

As a hard working blue collar guy, I support unions. If I were an employer, I would oppose them. These are the unions that I belong(ed) to;

1) Plumbers Union (1989-1999)
2) Hawaii Gov. Employees Assoc. (HGEA, 2000-2003)
3) Service Employees Inter. Union (SEIU, 2003 thru present)


So what is your stance on unions? And do you belong to a union?

[bjl584]

I think that they served an important purpose in giving workers rights, good pay, and safety at the workplace.

I also think that as time has passed, a lot of unions have evolved into big business themselves and have lost touch with what they were created for in the first place.

You could make the argument both ways for unions. They make sense for some industries and not for others. Steel workers and steamfitters definitely need representation. The work they do is specialized and dangerous. Teachers unions, I'm not so sure. They are paid by the taxpayer, and being unionized seems unnecessary and a conflict of interest.

[feh]

As a hard working blue collar guy, I support unions. If I were an employer, I would oppose them. These are the unions that I belong(ed) to;

1) Plumbers Union (1989-1999)
2) Hawaii Gov. Employees Assoc. (HGEA, 2000-2003)
3) Service Employees Inter. Union (SEIU, 2003 thru present)


So what is your stance on unions? And do you belong to a union?

I'm not a fan of these black & white positions/statements. It's indicative of how polarized people have become.

There's a lot of grey area here. My answer would depend on the specific issue and the particular union.

[disneysteve]

When they function to protect workers' rights, I think that's fine. When they morph into strong-arm negotiators to squeeze employers to up benefits to an unsustainable level, protect incompetent workers' jobs, and become very political, that's where they run into trouble.

[Fishindude77]

My firm is open shop yet we work in a business that has both open shop and union shop contractors and subcontractors. We have many good partner contractors that we work with and do our best to ignore union affiliation.

Unfortunately, we occasionally get some hot head union member in the rank & file that wants to stir up trouble. We quickly deal with those issues or quit working with those contractors. There is plenty of work to go around for all. If the union is your thing, fine, but don't try to shove it down others throats or make like it is the only option.

We like the flexibility of being open shop. Our guys can work multiple different trades in the same day with no restrictions. This creates more well rounded employees and gives them better job security. Also, we deal direct with the individuals one on one regarding wages, and pay based on their skill level, rather than a set rate.

A huge problem is, many younger union employees are going to be royally ripped off come retirement time, because their pension funds are severely underfunded. The money isn't going to be there to give them the retirement they have been paying for and have been promised.

[disneysteve]

We like the flexibility of being open shop. Our guys can work multiple different trades in the same day with no restrictions.

Not quite the same thing but this reminded me of one of the main reasons that the Philadelphia Convention Center has suffered. Companies that have had conventions and trade shows there have sworn to never return because of the insane union regulations that exist. For example, let's say you're setting up a convention booth and need to plug in a lit display. Don't you dare do it yourself. You need to have a union electrician do it for you. Need to attach a few screws to hold your display together. Don't you dare touch that screwdriver. You need to call a union carpenter for that. And of course the fees those guys charge is astronomical. Many convention operators have been "one and done" with Philadelphia because of that.

[Fishindude77]

Same thing at the convention centers in Chicago. You need a teamster to run a forklift to get your display materials to the area, laborers to set things up, and an electrician to run the extension cord. Same thing goes when packing up and tearing down.

My buddy said they used to do shows there and towards the end it was just cheaper to leave all of their stuff behind than to pay to have it handled again.

[GoodSteward]

I live near a nuclear plant, so I hear all the time of union workers going in for outages. I have friends who do it. They get paid 20-30$ an hour, 70-80hrs a week, to do very little. Some work very hard, but they are so regulated by safety they don't get a lot done. I was told one guy got paid 30$ an hour to stand with a fire extinguisher "just in case" by other workers. That was his job...nothing else. Stupid things like this are what raises our electric bills.

I believe people need to be paid fair, however, unions can often cause the reverse effect. People are overpaid, and the cost is passed down to the customers.

My feelings are if the employer doesn't want to pay me fair, or tries to get rid of me in some bogus way I wouldn't want to work for them anyway. Why would I force them to keep me, making me miserable to be in a place I'm not wanted and my boss wanted me gone? I'm sure there are cases where it isn't that simple, but I would just move on.

Unions have become synonymous with high pay rates and little work needed. You are entitled to the pay/benefits just by being in the union, and not because you are qualified to receive it. I don't like the idea of forcing a business on how to pay it's employees. If I am a business owner, I wouldn't want that right stripped from me.

[GoodSteward]

Take Walmart. They really should up their pay some for the people, however, in their defense why should they pay someone 15$ an hour to run a register or stock a shelf? Doing that shifts the whole value of higher education and experience down several levels. All the sudden going to school to specialize in something that only people with that schooling can do doesn't mean so much if you can put products on a shelf for the same money.

I think unions are needed, but only in rare places anymore.

[DaveInPgh]

Not quite the same thing but this reminded me of one of the main reasons that the Philadelphia Convention Center has suffered. Companies that have had conventions and trade shows there have sworn to never return because of the insane union regulations that exist. For example, let's say you're setting up a convention booth and need to plug in a lit display. Don't you dare do it yourself. You need to have a union electrician do it for you. Need to attach a few screws to hold your display together. Don't you dare touch that screwdriver. You need to call a union carpenter for that. And of course the fees those guys charge is astronomical. Many convention operators have been "one and done" with Philadelphia because of that.

That type of thing goes on at my employer, but in most cases TWO workers are required to do the work per their contract. Regardless of what the work is, two are sent on the job. Need your desk drawer unlocked? Two man job. Set up 3 tables for a pizza party. Two man job. It is ridiculous.

Unions, in my opinion, helped ruin America.

[Fishindude77]

I live near a nuclear plant, so I hear all the time of union workers going in for outages. I have friends who do it. They get paid 20-30$ an hour, 70-80hrs a week, to do very little. Some work very hard, but they are so regulated by safety they don't get a lot done. I was told one guy got paid 30$ an hour to stand with a fire extinguisher "just in case" by other workers. That was his job...nothing else. Stupid things like this are what raises our electric bills.

Just a couple comments on the above. These items are not "a union thing", so be careful pointing fingers if unfamiliar.
* $20-30 / hour rate is pretty much the norm, union or not.
* During a shutdown, sometimes 70+ hour work weeks are required to meet schedule.
* Having a full time fire watch is very common, and a good idea when doing "hot work".
A nuke plant is a multi-billion dollar operation. These items are peanuts in the grand scheme of things and have little to do with anybody's electric rate.

[GoodSteward]

I live near a nuclear plant, so I hear all the time of union workers going in for outages. I have friends who do it. They get paid 20-30$ an hour, 70-80hrs a week, to do very little. Some work very hard, but they are so regulated by safety they don't get a lot done. I was told one guy got paid 30$ an hour to stand with a fire extinguisher "just in case" by other workers. That was his job...nothing else. Stupid things like this are what raises our electric bills.

Just a couple comments on the above. These items are not "a union thing", so be careful pointing fingers if unfamiliar.
* $20-30 / hour rate is pretty much the norm, union or not.
* During a shutdown, sometimes 70+ hour work weeks are required to meet schedule.
* Having a full time fire watch is very common, and a good idea when doing "hot work".

The point is that it is union driven and regulated. That was just one example. I have a close friend who is a union electrician(retired) and he has made several comments on how wasteful they are with paying unneeded help at these outages. The plant doesn't hire these people. In fact, one friend of mine keeps trying to get hired by the plant so he doesn't have to drive to outages anymore. It's 100% union. The general tone presented to me when trying to get me to go work out there is how easy it is for such a large amount of pay for barely any work. That wouldn't be the case if the union wasn't involved. Good or bad.

A nuke plant is a multi-billion dollar operation. These items are peanuts in the grand scheme of things and have little to do with anybody's electric rate.

Untrue. All overhead falls on the bottom line and is the single biggest expense for most any company. Paying excessively for thousands of people for low-skilled/redundant positions is passed as an expense to keep margins. It may not cut my bill in half to change to non-union work, but it is affecting it.

[DaveInPgh]

Many years ago I was forced to pay union dues when I worked for a company despite not being a member of the union and having none of the protections that their members enjoyed.

I busted my rear at that warehouse job while I watched union employees take naps. And as long as they got their quota for the day, they couldn't be touched.

Back then it took between 6 months and a year to climb their list and receive a union position. What a bleeping racket!

[phantom]

The only person in my family who was ever in a union was my mom. She was one of four people in her role lumped into the SEIU with about 30 people in one role and 70 in another. Want to guess how much the union fought for her when contract negotiations rolled along?

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I think unions can be good and needed depending on the job. My friends who are teachers (young teachers) think teachers shouldn't be unionized because teachers should be fired for being complacent. Once they get tenure they don't try anymore and it's not fair to younger people coming out. More than 1 said how hard it is to land a position out of school because many teachers have the safety of not being fired. Also these younger people think they should rate and cut the teachers so salaries would be higher. I don't know if this would happen without a union but I think that many younger people feel that they aren't given enough opportunities because of unions.