First year college enrollment down sharply

[disneysteve]

First year college enrollment for the fall is down 16% nationwide. It certainly makes sense. Why pay full price for a very watered down experience?

Community colleges are suffering even more with enrollment down 23%. That also makes sense since they attract more lower income students whose families have likely been more impacted by the economic effects of the pandemic, job losses, etc.

I wonder what long term impact this may have. It's definitely wrecking the finances of colleges across the country.

[Snicks]

They are already talking about faculty layoffs at our local colleges and colleges in my State. Like DUH if you stopped teaching for real, what did they think would happen? Online may be ok for a few classes but 4 yrs of it? No way. And, to pretend that online instruction is worth the same price as in person is a huge fraud. I mean which would you pay more for? A youtube exercise video or an in person, actual live personal trainer? They are DEVALUING their own profession by trying to pretend that it is the same as in person when it is obvious to everyone it is not.

[disneysteve]

Online may be ok for a few classes but 4 yrs of it? No way. And, to pretend that online instruction is worth the same price as in person is a huge fraud.

I don't think anyone is talking about 4 years of online classes.

Not only is it online vs. in-person classes, but a great deal of campus life is missing too, even for commuter students. I'm sure lots of things like shows and speakers and dances and sporting events and such aren't occurring. I went to college to get the full experience. We sent our daughter for the same. No need to pay the full price when you're getting just the classes and not much else.

[amarowsky]

This is disheartening to hear.... As I was very interested at getting into the University Research industry. (Start as some admin, coordinator, purchasing, business esq roll) but hopefully get a 2nd bachelors in a related science, so I can start creating information for people. *One of my bucket list things, is to contribute to a scientific publishing! (My bro’s been published a few times, same w/ one of my best buddies) and I would love to do my part towards the needle of progress.

This puts a bit of a roadblock there..... I see a bunch of openings at Wayne state & UofM (both right by me). Wonder if these will come down, with this new, lower enrollment news.... (unless that enrollment decrease is limited to the coasts and the big cities)

[Snicks]

I don't think anyone is talking about 4 years of online classes.

Not only is it online vs. in-person classes, but a great deal of campus life is missing too, even for commuter students. I'm sure lots of things like shows and speakers and dances and sporting events and such aren't occurring. I went to college to get the full experience. We sent our daughter for the same. No need to pay the full price when you're getting just the classes and not much else.

Nobody was talking about full online college at all until it happened. So, right now my daughter is in her first year of college and it is going to be completely online as there is not going to be any change next semester. So already she is 100% online. Had she not been accepted into a cooperative Medical school program with this particular University, I would most definitely have encouraged her to go to another State.

[Snicks]

Teachers and college professors are DESTROYING their own profession to support continual lockdowns. I happen to believe that Education is essential. Odd that one wants to paint their own profession as nonessential.

[disneysteve]

(unless that enrollment decrease is limited to the coasts and the big cities)

I haven't actually seen the data or any breakdown of it. I've only seen the total numbers. I wouldn't be surprised if the decreases mirror the main population centers. Schools out in the middle of nowhere, especially in areas not hit as hard by COVID, probably aren't as affected.

[disneysteve]

Teachers and college professors are DESTROYING their own profession to support continual lockdowns. I happen to believe that Education is essential. Odd that one wants to paint their own profession as nonessential.

Where are you getting that teachers don't think they're essential? I have many friends and relatives who are teachers and a few who are college professors and they all continue to work full time and then some as the remote lessons involve a lot more work on their part.

Obviously, they pretty much all agree that in-person teaching is high risk and thankfully many of them have jobs that have gone 100% remote so they're safe as are their students. I don't how making everyone's health and safety the top priority can be viewed as "destroying their own profession".

[Snicks]

Where are you getting that teachers don't think they're essential? I have many friends and relatives who are teachers and a few who are college professors and they all continue to work full time and then some as the remote lessons involve a lot more work on their part.

Obviously, they pretty much all agree that in-person teaching is high risk and thankfully many of them have jobs that have gone 100% remote so they're safe as are their students. I don't how making everyone's health and safety the top priority can be viewed as "destroying their own profession".

It's not high risk. No more high risk than the rest of us going to work. My husband is an HS Science teacher. He wants to go back to full in person instruction. So, it was OK to risk the lives of people working at Walmart or grocery stores and THEY could work thru the height of covid? Dont' masks work? Why can't kids and teachers go back to school? Teachers somehow are entitled to some protective bubble that retail workers are not?

[disneysteve]

I think a lot of positions are at increased risk. Some are unavoidable, some are not.

I see COVID patients nearly every day, but I can't do my job remotely. Still, we have started doing telemedicine in an effort to keep as many patients as possible out of our clinics.

[Snicks]

I don't think you can compare a grocery store to a classroom. I spend maybe 30 minutes food shopping once a week, and I'm moving throughout the store the whole time. I'm not in a seat a few feet away from other people for multiple hours per day, 5 days per week.

We'll have to agree to disagree here.

Well, a grocery store worker is exposed to hundreds of people daily of all ages, state of health etc. Kids are not big vectors of Covid. And, those who wish to step down from teaching absolutely should. But, the vast majorityof teachers i know want to return to the classroom.

[Snicks]

Also the risk is not all about the Teachers. What about the risks of students? The gaps in their education? Isolation, loneliness? I thought the school was a safe haven for kids where they are served meals and observed by educated teachers for signs of abuse and so forth. We are greatly minimizing the value of teachers in all of this. Kids are plopped in homes in front of computers and some of them have literally disappeared off the grid in all of this. It is very damaging to them. And, most teachers went into Teaching BECAUSE they want to be classroom teachers. The value of human to human physical interaction cannot be replaced with sterile, one dimensional online teaching.

[Snicks]

I think a lot of positions are at increased risk. Some are unavoidable, some are not.

I see COVID patients nearly every day, but I can't do my job remotely. Still, we have started doing telemedicine in an effort to keep as many patients as possible out of our clinics.

Yes, and education of our young should not be an "avoidable".

[Fishindude77]

Also the risk is not all about the Teachers. What about the risks of students? The gaps in their education? Isolation, loneliness? I thought the school was a safe haven for kids where they are served meals and observed by educated teachers for signs of abuse and so forth. We are greatly minimizing the value of teachers in all of this. Kids are plopped in homes in front of computers and some of them have literally disappeared off the grid in all of this. It is very damaging to them. And, most teachers went into Teaching BECAUSE they want to be classroom teachers. The value of human to human physical interaction cannot be replaced with sterile, one dimensional online teaching.

I agree 100%.
Virtual learning isn't cutting it, especially for the really young kids and average and below students.

[disneysteve]

Also the risk is not all about the Teachers. What about the risks of students? The gaps in their education? Isolation, loneliness? I thought the school was a safe haven for kids where they are served meals and observed by educated teachers for signs of abuse and so forth. We are greatly minimizing the value of teachers in all of this. Kids are plopped in homes in front of computers and some of them have literally disappeared off the grid in all of this. It is very damaging to them. And, most teachers went into Teaching BECAUSE they want to be classroom teachers. The value of human to human physical interaction cannot be replaced with sterile, one dimensional online teaching.

I agree with you. Remote learning is far from ideal, but right now, in the midst of a pandemic that this country has failed to address properly, in-person school simply isn't safe in many places. Look how many colleges opened in September only to close again within 2 weeks. I have friends whose kids were remote until early October, finally went back to elementary school, and a couple of weeks later were back on remote learning temporarily because of numerous COVID cases in the school.

And a high percentage of teachers are older or in high risk groups. We have good friends who are both teachers. The husband had a kidney/pancreas transplant a year ago. The wife was just diagnosed with ovarian cancer and is starting chemotherapy. Neither of them should be in a classroom. They should be isolating at home. They'd love to be teaching in person but not in the middle of a pandemic.

There's no good answer here, but the health of everyone involved needs to be a top priority.