financial racism

[disneysteve]

I did say they are at a disadvantage.

Are you saying that children raised by unmarried parents are somehow at a disadvantage? If so, can you explain what that disadvantage is? If the parents are in a committed relationship, doing all of the things you mentioned (pooling income, sharing expenses, working together, etc.), where does the disadvantage arise simply by them not being legally married?

Now if you're talking about single parents, that's a whole different discussion and I agree that having two parents together in the home is much preferred. In no way do I mean to disparage single parents by saying that as I know many who are doing incredible jobs and have raised remarkable children, but is it the ideal situation? No, I don't think it is.

[GoodLiving]

Yeap. It's funny, the harder you work, the luckier and more privileged you seem to get.

I did watch an interview of Thomas Sowell a while back where he discussed the financial leaps and bounds made by the black community from the end of slavery up to the 1960's. At which point when the government decided to "help". From that point forward things have been headed down hill. In my opinion the break down of the family structure is most to blame.

In 1960, 2% of white children were born to unwed mothers, while 22% of black children were.

In 2015, the numbers are 30% of white children and 70% of blacks.

All the racism in the world isn't forcing people to have children out of wedlock. Either a culture embraces marriage and the family unit or it does not. If a culture choses not to embrace the family it choses to put itself at an extreme disadvantage.

Some of the stuff that hasn't been discussed is the impact of generational wealth. My family was able to support three undergraduate degrees without much debt, two of us had international travel in high school, while living rurally - independent transportation. We didn't have a lot of money but we had grandparents that also supported us financially to purchase extras such as bicycles, high school class rings and etc. Our family had a car for each parent and one to share with the three kids. It was never dictated but it was an easy choice when you don't know what you're going to do for your future. As a white family, my parents received down payment assistance for their first home, they purchased a plot of land with future dreams of building a house. All four of my grandparents were college educated, both of my parents had masters degrees and 2 of 3 of my sibs and I have multiple masters degrees. While starting out I didn't have much money, I had family support and back up which gave me the courage to take bigger risks when trying to achieve more in life. Also when I was young, we got pregnant out of wedlock but we married (and later divorced). I stayed divorced for over 15 years. I think folks in middle class can hide their own social problems easier and not have to represent an entire class or race of folks, we get the privilege of being recognized as individuals not represent the entire group.

We also don't deal with redlining which still happens despite it being illegal.

https://www.consumerfinancemonitor.com/2019/06/18/doj-settles-redlining-lawsuit-against-first-merchants-bank/

https://www.consumerfinancemonitor.com/2018/05/10/doj-settles-redlining-lawsuit-against-kleinbank/

My gender or race will impact my ability to earn wealth over my lifetime

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/01/racial-gender-wage-gaps-persist-in-u-s-despite-some-progress/

Also there's so many other issues related to the school-to-prison pipeline that impacts the ability for black men to remain with their families which might certainly reflect the unwed mothers statistics. https://www.usccr.gov/pubs/docs/Civi...%20Indiana.pdf

[disneysteve]

Does white privilege exist in China?

If I'd been born a Hutu in Rwanda, would i be privileged?
The only possible privilege which could be legitimately argued is that of living in The United States of America. And that privilege is thanks to the work done by white males 224 years ago for themselves and their posterity. That applies to everyone equally, regardless of gender or race.

I have no idea what conditions are in China or Rwanda. There are probably some forms of racism or favored groups of people but I don't know enough about either place to address that.

Privilege comes in many flavors. Yes, being born in the US gives you more privilege than being born in some third world country. But within the US, there are also various differentiators. Race is one. Gender is another. Sexual orientation is yet another. Do you not think a straight white male in the US is likely to have an easier time in life than a Black trans woman? If you think those two people are going to be treated equally in every way, than we'll have to agree to disagree.

[moneybags]

Women account for 51% of the population. Its a coin toss if you're born male for female. Please define what non-biological benefits were bestowed on me at the moment of conception? If women can have jobs, buy property, and make investments, all by themselves, what is the disadvantage?

Thanks to female privilege, they suffer fewer suicides, less prison convictions, less work related deaths and less war related deaths and injuries.

Since this is a financial forum, I'll stick to money. Do you think getting paid less is not a disadvantage? Women and POC have historically been paid less than white males (for doing the same job). I have seen it and experienced it myself. Even if I had not, the stats are out there.

[bjl584]

If you want to entertain the concept of privilege, then you have to look everywhere and at everything.

Not everyone was privileged enough to be 6' 5", 230 lbs, and run the 40 in 4 seconds. Those who were play in the NFL and make millions of dollars

Not everyone was privileged enough to have a 180 IQ and work on theoretical physics for NASA. Those who were are making big money

Not everyone was privileged enough to have the looks and ability to be an actor in Hollywood. Those who were make millions

Not everyone was privileged enough to be born in the United States. People living in North Korea probably envy those in the western world, even if it isn't perfect

The world and society doesn't operate on a level playing field.
Every system and society will always have its haves and its have nots.

I can't do anything about the hand I've been dealt.
I can only play it to the best of my ability, keep working hard, and keep learning and improving.
Anything short of that is just making excuses, being lazy, and denying reality.

Some people will never have as much as others. There will be roadblocks. There will be set backs. Some of them can be lessened through social change. Some can not.
But, there is never a reason to just give up and accept your lot in life, blame others, and not even bother to try.

I came from a broken home. My mom split and my dad was a mentally abusive alcoholic.
Statistically, I should probably be in jail or dead.
But, here I stand with a good career, a Masters Degree, two pieces of real estate, and a portfolio approaching 7 figures.
I didn't get here because someone bestowed privilege upon me.
I got here by grinding it out. Working 3 and 4 jobs at once. Sleeping only a few hours a night at certain points. Staying focused on my goals. Never giving up. Never blaming things out of my control
Maybe 5% because I was born white.
The other 95% because I bust my ass

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Does white privilege exist in China?

If I'd been born a Hutu in Rwanda, would i be privileged?

Women account for 51% of the population. Its a coin toss if you're born male for female. Please define what non-biological benefits were bestowed on me at the moment of conception? If women can have jobs, buy property, and make investments, all by themselves, what is the disadvantage?

Thanks to female privilege, they suffer fewer suicides, less prison convictions, less work related deaths and less war related deaths and injuries.

The only possible privilege which could be legitimately argued is that of living in The United States of America. And that privilege is thanks to the work done by white males 224 years ago for themselves and their posterity. That applies to everyone equally, regardless of gender or race.

Yes it's a privilege to be born in the US. But at the same time there is inherent racism and pointed out POC and Women earn less than white males for the exact same job. Women also get promoted less and pushed aside. In fact in COVID more women are leaving the workforce. But worse? My friend in HR said women are getting PIP and bad work reviews because they can't keep up. Those who are working full time and trying to during this time are still doing more at home and trying to keep up with men and people without children(younger and older people). So how do they compete? How do they be exceeds? They can't and that in and of itself is driving women out or being pushed aside or losing status at work. Right now I wonder how will i go back to work more full time in January. Answer is I won't. I'm providing teaching and childcare and it doesn't look like they will be going back. So I'm it. And I'm going to take another step back to help the family "unit".

So yes there is inherent problems. Also the recovery of jobs is pointedly against POC and lower income jobs. But the recession never even happened for those in certain fields and income.

And for jobs in military? It doesn't always work out. My cousin did his tours in the middle east and was discharged honorable with PTSD. He's turned to drinkings and drugs. I don't know what is going to happen to him. As his dad cried to my mom, it's not going well. So no it doesn't always work out. It can and I believe it does help many but there is the other side of the coin. And my mom's half sister has fallen into homelessness and alcohol and drug abuse. Along with multiple other family members so I have had a lot of lucky breaks that have "broken" my way.

I can easily see how I could have fallen into the wrong category. But brian being a white male is a huge amount of privilege. That in and of itself has added advantages no matter what. I can say that as a POC and female and seeing my family falling on the other side. Well it's not so simple as work hard and you'll have everything. I'm all for personal responsibility but I think we need to think about not "student loan forgiveness" but rather how to give a hand out to all students to purse a technical degree or some sort of training past high school. I think we need financial literacy. I think we need a social safety net for families before they become homeless. I think we need to help those with UBI and stop stigmatizing it. We need to make all birth control free and easily accessible because if we blame poor parenting maybe part of it stems from people doing stupid stuff like forgoing birth control because of costs.

We all know the costs of medical. We all know how long the lines are for Medicaid. So how to change that?

[corn18]

If you want to entertain the concept of privilege, then you have to look everywhere and at everything.

Not everyone was privileged enough to be 6' 5", 230 lbs, and run the 40 in 4 seconds. Those who were play in the NFL and make millions of dollars

Not everyone was privileged enough to have a 180 IQ and work on theoretical physics for NASA. Those who were are making big money

Not everyone was privileged enough to have the looks and ability to be an actor in Hollywood. Those who were make millions

Not everyone was privileged enough to be born in the United States. People living in North Korea probably envy those in the western world, even if it isn't perfect

The world and society doesn't operate on a level playing field.
Every system and society will always have its haves and its have nots.

I can't do anything about the hand I've been dealt.
I can only play it to the best of my ability, keep working hard, and keep learning and improving.
Anything short of that is just making excuses, being lazy, and denying reality.

Some people will never have as much as others. There will be roadblocks. There will be set backs. Some of them can be lessened through social change. Some can not.
But, there is never a reason to just give up and accept your lot in life, blame others, and not even bother to try.

I came from a broken home. My mom split and my dad was a mentally abusive alcoholic.
Statistically, I should probably be in jail or dead.
But, here I stand with a good career, a Masters Degree, two pieces of real estate, and a portfolio approaching 7 figures.
I didn't get here because someone bestowed privilege upon me.
I got here by grinding it out. Working 3 and 4 jobs at once. Sleeping only a few hours a night at certain points. Staying focused on my goals. Never giving up. Never blaming things out of my control
Maybe 5% because I was born white.
The other 95% because I bust my ass

interesting point. I was born into a poor family and we didn’t have a lot growing up. But I was wicked smart. Got straight As until fifth grade when I got into the wrong crowd and stopped doing any work. Was getting Cs and Ds in school. I guess my big break in life fame when my fifth grade teacher had a heart attack. We went through a few subs and then Mrs. Allen came along. She got me straightened out somehow and from that point until I graduated high school I got all As. It was easy for me and I never studied but I did do the work. That set me up to get appointments to the Air Force and Naval Academies and a free ride in college. Again, my smarts made it easy to get good grades at the Academy. Then 20 years flying jets. Had Mrs. Allen not straightened me out, who knows where I would have ended up.

But if I did t have an easy time at academics, I may have fallen short of my goal to fly as well. That certainly has been and continues to be my advantage. That isn’t fair, I guess.

[YULACU]

I came from a broken home. My mom split and my dad was a mentally abusive alcoholic.
Statistically, I should probably be in jail or dead.
But, here I stand with a good career, a Masters Degree, two pieces of real estate, and a portfolio approaching 7 figures.
I didn't get here because someone bestowed privilege upon me.
I got here by grinding it out. Working 3 and 4 jobs at once. Sleeping only a few hours a night at certain points. Staying focused on my goals. Never giving up. Never blaming things out of my control
Maybe 5% because I was born white.
The other 95% because I bust my ass

Saying someone has benefited from white privilege is not saying that their life is easy. It's saying that your race isn't one of the things making it difficult.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Saying someone has benefited from white privilege is not saying that their life is easy. It's saying that your race isn't one of the things making it difficult.

this is exactly how white privlege works. It's just that the place you start is different and it's harder to get out of the situation.

[ua_guy]

If you want to entertain the concept of privilege, then you have to look everywhere and at everything.

Not everyone was privileged enough to be 6' 5", 230 lbs, and run the 40 in 4 seconds. Those who were play in the NFL and make millions of dollars

Not everyone was privileged enough to have a 180 IQ and work on theoretical physics for NASA. Those who were are making big money

Not everyone was privileged enough to have the looks and ability to be an actor in Hollywood. Those who were make millions

Not everyone was privileged enough to be born in the United States. People living in North Korea probably envy those in the western world, even if it isn't perfect

The world and society doesn't operate on a level playing field.
Every system and society will always have its haves and its have nots.

I can't do anything about the hand I've been dealt.
I can only play it to the best of my ability, keep working hard, and keep learning and improving.
Anything short of that is just making excuses, being lazy, and denying reality.

Some people will never have as much as others. There will be roadblocks. There will be set backs. Some of them can be lessened through social change. Some can not.
But, there is never a reason to just give up and accept your lot in life, blame others, and not even bother to try.

I came from a broken home. My mom split and my dad was a mentally abusive alcoholic.
Statistically, I should probably be in jail or dead.
But, here I stand with a good career, a Masters Degree, two pieces of real estate, and a portfolio approaching 7 figures.
I didn't get here because someone bestowed privilege upon me.
I got here by grinding it out. Working 3 and 4 jobs at once. Sleeping only a few hours a night at certain points. Staying focused on my goals. Never giving up. Never blaming things out of my control
Maybe 5% because I was born white.
The other 95% because I bust my ass

But we're talking about financial racism.

This is about access to banking, credit. Investments in entrepreneurship. Home ownership. Job opportunity in highly compensated positions. Etc.

If all struggles are equal, then economic opportunity, compensation, representation in high paying positions, etc should be proportionally the same across all races as percentages of the overall population. But all the data I've ever seen says it's not. People of color are disproportionately affected. If I'm not a racist, you're not a racist, a bank or corporation isn't racist, but the data keeps saying people of color are under-represented in these areas, then there must be structural elements which are racist and should be addressed.

I'm not sure there's any other way to explain what the data shows us. I think we all need to check our privilege and understanding when we say everyone can get to a pot of gold, but they have to climb a wall, and the rest of us get to walk through an open door.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

POC and Women make what 80% of white males make. That in and of itself speak to the financial racism present in the US. The other part? White families hand down inheritances and family help at a much greater rate than others because they have it. I don't think it's wrong but it's another way that race does play a role. That you have succeeded and then you are bale to help your family for generations.

[myrdale]

POC and Women make what 80% of white males make.

This is a complete myth. Also the Equal Pay Act has been around since 1963. If you're getting payed less than you're male counterpart, sue the company.

[disneysteve]

This is a complete myth. Also the Equal Pay Act has been around since 1963. If you're getting payed less than you're male counterpart, sue the company.

You are correct, but only in a very specific sense. Yes, if two people are hired by the same company to do the same job and they have similar qualifications, they should be receiving the same pay regardless of age, gender, race, etc.

The gender pay gap goes a lot deeper than that, though. There continues to be gender discrimination where men are preferentially hired for traditionally male-dominated jobs enforcing long-standing stereotypes and limiting women's access to those jobs which, coincidentally, tend to be higher paying than the roles women are more readily hired for. And since this thread is about racial issues, white men are also preferentially hired over Black men (or women of any race).

There are only 5 Black Fortune 500 CEOs and only 37 women.

[corn18]

We preferred to hire women for our electro optical manufacturing positions because it has been demonstrated they do a better job than men. Is that sexism or just hiring the best person for the job?

[ua_guy]

We preferred to hire women for our electro optical manufacturing positions because it has been demonstrated they do a better job than men. Is that sexism or just hiring the best person for the job?

That's treading into murky water with employment discrimination laws here in the US, provided your business is covered by them. You'd have to establish that sex is an occupational qualification necessary to perform the job and be able to defend that in a lawsuit if someone ever made a stink about it.