financial racism

[disneysteve]

We preferred to hire women for our electro optical manufacturing positions because it has been demonstrated they do a better job than men. Is that sexism or just hiring the best person for the job?

That's an interesting question. When you say it has been "demonstrated" what does that mean? If you can cite actual research that has compared male vs female performance on the job duties, you may be okay. If, however, it's just anecdotal evidence, like managers saying women seem to do better than men, then you might be on shaky ground legally.

I'm really curious what the nature of the work is and why women would do a better job.

[corn18]

That's an interesting question. When you say it has been "demonstrated" what does that mean? If you can cite actual research that has compared male vs female performance on the job duties, you may be okay. If, however, it's just anecdotal evidence, like managers saying women seem to do better than men, then you might be on shaky ground legally.

I'm really curious what the nature of the work is and why women would do a better job.

Actual studies. Women are much better at doing fine manual labor than men.

[disneysteve]

Actual studies. Women are much better at doing fine manual labor than men.

When people apply for the job, how do you decide who to hire? Are applicants given some sort of skills test? If men applying are given a fair shot at the job, I see nothing wrong with hiring the applicants who possess the most skill at the task at hand. If that happens to be predominately women, so be it.

[myrdale]

In fact in COVID more women are leaving the workforce......

My friend in HR said women are getting PIP and bad work reviews because they can't keep up. Those who are working full time and trying to during this time are still doing more at home and trying to keep up with men and people without children(younger and older people). So how do they compete? How do they be exceeds?

To be clear, you say women chose to quit their jobs because they are get written up because they can not do the same quality job as a man? Pay is about performance not gender.

My cousin............. turned to drinkings and drugs........ And my mom's half sister has fallen into homelessness and alcohol and drug abuse.

Their personal decisions. No one is forcing them to do drugs. They want to do drugs, and they want the consequences that come with it. When they decide the life style and all of it's consequences are no longer for them, they will clean themselves up.

I think we need to think about..... how to give a hand out to all students to purse a technical degree or some sort of training past high school.

Eliminate federally backed student loans.

I think we need financial literacy.

I agree. If every student was required to take a Dave Ramsey class before they graduated, and was required to maintain a part time job while in school, I suspect you would find within a decade most everyone of our politicians would be replaced and the country would be well on the path to being debt free.

I think we need a social safety net for families before they become homeless. I think we need to help those with UBI and stop stigmatizing it.

Welfare / WIC / Food Stamps / EBT / Section 8 Housing

How much money do you have to throw at them exactly?

We need to make all birth control free and easily accessible because if we blame poor parenting maybe part of it stems from people doing stupid stuff like forgoing birth control because of costs.

Health department gives out condoms every day. People "chose" to "forgo birth control". They accept the consequences that come with making this choice.

We all know the costs of medical. We all know how long the lines are for Medicaid. So how to change that?

Prosecute people who take advantage of the system. I've got a coworker who decided not to elect to buy family insurance, because he can get Peach Care for free for his kids.

[~bs]

This is actually real and pretty well documented. Should look up gentrification and how certain ethnic groups pushed out of neighborhoods, how other ethnicities flee other areas to move away from other ethnicities.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

To be clear, you say women chose to quit their jobs because they are get written up because they can not do the same quality job as a man? Pay is about performance not gender.


To be clear it is proven for the same job women and POC are paid less. They are also less likely to go into "Male" dominated fields. Otherwise why would you see less women/POC as CEO, Fed Chairs, even politics? 51% of country is women but women make up 26 out of 100 seats on the senate. POC on senate? 9 out of 100. There is something there that it's not translating into diversity. And yes there is racism, I just nicely heard a new aid virtually ask my kiddo how do you say your name? Very polite and super respectful but I live somewhere that it mattera. But there a lot of people like David Perdue saying "her name is Kamala-mala-mala or whatever". From the viewing of your name that "looks" different on a resume.


Their personal decisions. No one is forcing them to do drugs. They want to do drugs, and they want the consequences that come with it. When they decide the life style and all of it's consequences are no longer for them, they will clean themselves up.

Absolutely they are responsible But there are things that do are much harder to overcome or break the wrong way and they are more likely to end up abusing drugs/alcohol/homelessness and not succeeding. I am not saying personal responsibility is needed. But an acknowledgment that there are other factors and underlying conditions that contribute to the problem.

Eliminate federally backed student loans.

-What will this do? How will you support low income students? How will you support students whose parents are broke and homeless? Or lower income and bad credit?


I agree. If every student was required to take a Dave Ramsey class before they graduated, and was required to maintain a part time job while in school, I suspect you would find within a decade most everyone of our politicians would be replaced and the country would be well on the path to being debt free.

Maybe but I doubt that it's quite so simple. I don't think.

Welfare / WIC / Food Stamps / EBT / Section 8 Housing

How much money do you have to throw at them exactly?

I don't know but it might streamline the process. It might be easier to do UBI than to be fighting over Welfare and WIC. 43% of people on welfare are white. So the judgement that welfare queens are black is outdated and wrong.


Health department gives out condoms every day. People "chose" to "forgo birth control". They accept the consequences that come with making this choice.

People don't necessarily forgo birth control. Many, many people (pretty much everyone I know) say "oh I was on birth control and I got pregnant." These are people in committed relationships. Yes they accept the consequences but I don't think that people are necessarily "forgoing" birth control. Stupidity happens to many people. I don't think race, income, or education are really contributing to it. Perhaps more that people in general at fools.

Prosecute people who take advantage of the system. I've got a coworker who decided not to elect to buy family insurance, because he can get Peach Care for free for his kids.

But instead of prosecuting people why not just provide medical for everyone? That is not tied to employment? Do you believe healthcare is NOT a right? I think that's the big fundamental question that needs to be asked in the USA. And I think both people who are "conservative personal responsibility" and socialist should agree that health insurance should NOT be tied to employment because then we would all be responsible for our own care and insurance and it might push us to a single payer or truly "free" market economic health care.

[Snicks]

Everyone in life is dealt a different set of cards to play. We can bemoan that or we just work with the cards we are dealt. Society has made strides through public education, social safety net, etc to try to give a few better cards to move ahead. However, some want an equality of OUTCOME and some want an equality of OPPORTUNITY. I coach girls elementary bball and they all come to my gym and get the same opportunity of instruction that I provide. Some will run with it, go home and practice, apply themselves, strive to get better. Some will not take it very seriously. Some have natural talent and athleticism to start with. Some do not. So, no matter what you do, human beings all have their own unique qualities. In reality, I reward effort and excellence. If you work hard and acquire the SKILLS then you are going to be a better player. If you don't practice, no amount of cajoling or instruction will change someone who won't apply themselves.

So, in life, I can only do MY best. I cannot do someone else's best. My BEST may only reach a certain level but that's ok, because that is MY best. If we really want human beings to have their best lives, we will promote them to do THEIR best. Or we can tell them they are incapable, the deck is stacked, don't even bother. Which one ultimately is going to give someone a good life? Certainly not the latter.

[disneysteve]

some want an equality of OUTCOME and some want an equality of OPPORTUNITY.

Exactly. Equality of outcome is never going to happen. What systemic racism is about, though, is equality of opportunity. That does not exist today. That's what we need to work on.

[Snicks]

Exactly. Equality of outcome is never going to happen. What systemic racism is about, though, is equality of opportunity. That does not exist today. That's what we need to work on.

There are efforts towards equality of "outcome". And mostly that involves pulling someone down to squash them and belittle their accomplishments. Kids are made to feel bad if they excel at something. We used to hold up achievers as a model but oftentimes they are now belittled. Instead of respecting and admiring their hard work or effort they are painted as greedy or other things. When i was a kid I aspired to be like the best players. Now, I don't see that same kind of thinking. Instead they give participation trophies and downplay the hard work and effort of the skilled.

Case in point. My daughter was a very hard working basketball player. In 8th grade they had a shooting competition. 3 different stations. And the reward was a candy bar for winning. Those were the RULES they set up. And, what happened? My daughter won all 3 stations. However, the coaches decided that wasn't "fair" and they allowed her to have one candy bar and gave the other 2 to the second place girls. That really sticks in my craw to this day. First of all, she won fair and square on the rules of the competition. She had every right to keep those 3 candy bars. They also robbed her of an opportunity to be a gracious winner. I have no doubt she would have shared her candy bars. But, even if she didn't, she had every right to just pack them in her bag and take them home as something she EARNED.

So, what was learned? The rules dont' apply. You can change the rules if you dont' like the outcome. It isn't "fair" if someone has worked hard and was able to execute the skill they learned, etc. Really that is a CRAPPY message in my opinion.

[disneysteve]

Case in point. My daughter was a very hard working basketball player. In 8th grade they had a shooting competition. 3 different stations. And the reward was a candy bar for winning. Those were the RULES they set up. And, what happened? My daughter won all 3 stations. However, the coaches decided that wasn't "fair" and they allowed her to have one candy bar and gave the other 2 to the second place girls. That really sticks in my craw to this day.

Ah, the "participation trophy". Drives me nuts. I agree with you 100%. If you want to give everyone who enters a contest a candy bar, great. But then you also need to have a separate and distinct prize for the winner. Otherwise, what's the point of trying?

And keep in mind that it isn't the kids themselves who created this mess. It's their parents arguing with teachers and coaches that it isn't fair if their little Johnny or Susie doesn't get all of the same accolades as the other kids. I've heard so many stories from teachers about parents arguing and even threatening them when their kid got anything less than an A, even in elementary school. The parents aren't willing to accept that their kid isn't the best and brightest and most accomplished at absolutely everything. It's insane.

[Snicks]

Ah, the "participation trophy". Drives me nuts. I agree with you 100%. If you want to give everyone who enters a contest a candy bar, great. But then you also need to have a separate and distinct prize for the winner. Otherwise, what's the point of trying?

And keep in mind that it isn't the kids themselves who created this mess. It's their parents arguing with teachers and coaches that it isn't fair if their little Johnny or Susie doesn't get all of the same accolades as the other kids. I've heard so many stories from teachers about parents arguing and even threatening them when their kid got anything less than an A, even in elementary school. The parents aren't willing to accept that their kid isn't the best and brightest and most accomplished at absolutely everything. It's insane.

The sad thing is that getting a C might be far better for your child than getting an A. For some reason we dont' think kids should have to struggle at anything but it is often in the struggle where one truly learns and masters.

[disneysteve]

The sad thing is that getting a C might be far better for your child than getting an A. For some reason we dont' think kids should have to struggle at anything but it is often in the struggle where one truly learns and masters.

Yep. When you get an A in everything even with minimal effort or sub-par work, there's no motivation to try harder next time. There's no drive to improve. Those kids go on to graduate college and get jobs where employers actually expect results and they are ill equipped to deal with that.

We're way off topic though.

[~bs]

When people apply for the job, how do you decide who to hire? Are applicants given some sort of skills test? If men applying are given a fair shot at the job, I see nothing wrong with hiring the applicants who possess the most skill at the task at hand. If that happens to be predominately women, so be it.

Id imagine it's not only those that possess the most skill, but the number of applicants probably skews the same way as well.

When I was much younger, I had applied for a job involving manufacture of jewelry. Admittedly, I bombed the test. In hindsight, I can see how other demographics of people would tend to do better than I did. As a whole, I think women in general have better attention to detail and more naturally spend tie time and attention on these details. Quite possibly an evolutionary trait, but I'm no scientist. Quick google source below. Men tend to do better at logical problems and logic based decision making, women tend to rely on emotion. Obviously there's many exceptions to the norm, but it likely explains much of the demographics of why the different sexes excel at different jobs, and choose such jobs as their career, rather than falling back immediately on cries of sexism. Why are there so many female teachers compared to men? If you look at the overall gender strengths and weaknesses, it simply is a better match of the skills needed to educate the children on a day to day basis, although that's not to say that men can't or won't or won't excel at doing it. Which is true and viceversa for any given job.



Attention to details.
Women tend to absorb more information through their senses and store more of it in the brain for other uses than men do. Therefore, women generally have more interest in details and pay more attention to them than men do.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/diffe...han%20men%20do.

[disneysteve]

Id imagine it's not only those that possess the most skill, but the number of applicants probably skews the same way as well.

When I was much younger, I had applied for a job involving manufacture of jewelry. Admittedly, I bombed the test. In hindsight, I can see how other demographics of people would tend to do better than I did. As a whole, I think women in general have better attention to detail and more naturally spend tie time and attention on these details. Quite possibly an evolutionary trait, but I'm no scientist. Quick google source below. Men tend to do better at logical problems and logic based decision making, women tend to rely on emotion. Obviously there's many exceptions to the norm, but it likely explains much of the demographics of why the different sexes excel at different jobs, and choose such jobs as their career, rather than falling back immediately on cries of sexism.

I agree. As long as men and women are being given an equal shot, that's fine. A problem only arises if an employer preferentially calls in women for interviews because of an inherent bias believing that women are naturally better equipped to do the work.

[Snicks]

There is all kinds of bias in hiring. And, the reality is the company wants to find someone they believe "fits" them. And, they can choose whomever they prefer for whatever reason, they just don't the reason. And I have been involved in hiring. There is some misconception that there is one "Best" candidate. In reality, everyone is a package of all kinds of things. So, rarely was there every anyone who was so far above the others. Mostly you would interview and could see several candidates working out well and you just picked one and it came down to your gut feeling.