Student loan forgiveness

[LivingAlmostLarge]

It was $30k

for trade school? that is tuition or all living expenses? My point is that it should be free. If we all keep talking about not going to college and suggest "training and trades" why the hell does it cost money? Why shouldn't the pathway for that or AA degrees which potential real life jobs be free?

[Snicks]

for trade school? that is tuition or all living expenses? My point is that it should be free. If we all keep talking about not going to college and suggest "training and trades" why the hell does it cost money? Why shouldn't the pathway for that or AA degrees which potential real life jobs be free?

Tuition only. It's very expensive in PA. That's what i costs.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Tuition only. It's very expensive in PA. That's what i costs.

that is incredibly expensive. Much more than I thought. And another reason to perhaps supporting paying for it to make it free?

[Snicks]

that is incredibly expensive. Much more than I thought. And another reason to perhaps supporting paying for it to make it free?

Despite the expense, no i do not support FREE anything.

[disneysteve]

Despite the expense, no i do not support FREE anything.

Well that's party because there's no such thing as FREE. We all know what that actually means is you and I paying for it via higher taxes.

[disneysteve]

I also don't see 30K to learn a trade as being that expensive. That's less than the cost of a single year at a decent college.

[Snicks]

Well that's party because there's no such thing as FREE. We all know what that actually means is you and I paying for it via higher taxes.

And, in my experience and observation, Govt is very poor at hitting their designated target with money. They fritter away far more of it than those who actually EARN it with their own sweat and hard work.

[ua_guy]

And, in my experience and observation, Govt is very poor at hitting their designated target with money. They fritter away far more of it than those who actually EARN it with their own sweat and hard work.

I'm just curious, do you have specific instances where the government has 'frittered' away money on education?

Again, I'm really unsure why the US isn't including more post-secondary education in k-12 courses. But to that point, publicly funded post-secondary education has created some of the best and most advanced teaching hospitals in the world. Granted, a lot of students pay hefty tuition, but also, those programs provide financial assistance to those who wish to become world-class healthcare providers. I find it really hard to believe these programs aren't effective or efficient simply because they are funded by the government.

[Fishindude77]

What trades are "Free" to get in to? My son went to a Tech/Trade school and they had courses in welding, electricity etc. Yes, maybe you can just apprentice if you know the right people but mostly, to get into HVAC or any of those things they want you to have that trade school background now. And the trade schools here are NOT cheap by any means. Cheaper than 4 yrs of college, yes, still quite pricey in my State.

My expertise is in construction and I can tell you that all of the construction trades are starving for good help. When I say construction trades that includes a very, very wide array of trades; heavy equipment, rigging, excavation, concrete, masonry, ironwork, welding, carpentry, millwright, insulating, doors, dock equipment, painting, flooring, HVAC, sheet metal, plumbing, boilermaker, electrical, IT systems and communications to name a few.

We had a large non-union company and hired many young folks straight out of high school, and helped them work their way up through careers in the trades. Many started out as basic laborers, decided what direction interested them, then took advantage of some after hours training while getting the majority of their education on the job all the while getting paid a liveable wage. They worked into skilled trades positions, supervisory and management roles, and one is a current owner partner in my former company. This kind is stuff is going on every day in many businesses, and the primary requirements are; look presentable, be drug free, have some basic math, reading and writing skills, then get through your interview(s) decently. After that if you get to work every day on time, are reliable, trainable and have a decent attitude, the sky is the limit.

I'm certain the same route can get you into many other types of skilled trade jobs, as they are all starving for employees too. You don't have to be in a union either, they represent a small percentage of skilled trades in the US today.

[ua_guy]

My expertise is in construction and I can tell you that all of the construction trades are starving for good help. When I say construction trades that includes a very, very wide array of trades; heavy equipment, rigging, excavation, concrete, masonry, ironwork, welding, carpentry, millwright, insulating, doors, dock equipment, painting, flooring, HVAC, sheet metal, plumbing, boilermaker, electrical, IT systems and communications to name a few.

We had a large non-union company and hired many young folks straight out of high school, and helped them work their way up through careers in the trades. Many started out as basic laborers, decided what direction interested them, then took advantage of some after hours training while getting the majority of their education on the job all the while getting paid a liveable wage. They worked into skilled trades positions, supervisory and management roles, and one is a current owner partner in my former company. This kind is stuff is going on every day in many businesses, and the primary requirements are; look presentable, be drug free, have some basic math, reading and writing skills, then get through your interview(s) decently. After that if you get to work every day on time, are reliable, trainable and have a decent attitude, the sky is the limit.

I'm certain the same route can get you into many other types of skilled trade jobs, as they are all starving for employees too. You don't have to be in a union either, they represent a small percentage of skilled trades in the US today.

I wanted to point out for others that driving is a trade that is easy entry and low-cost since it only involves the cost of the license itself, and in some states, a brief training course. People immediately think of OTR trucking and what a mess of an industry that is, but it doesn't have to be. With just a little experience one can drive a dump truck, side dump, equipment hauler and get on with big construction projects, start making prevailing wage and doing year round work. In my county, the PW rate for a truck driver is between $50 and $60 per hour. Yep. To drive a truck. And that's not counting any overtime. I know people who are $100,000+ year truck drivers. Some are union and some aren't. They do work long hours (50-60 isn't uncommon) and Saturdays, but they are home every night. Fishindude is right... show up every day, do a good job, be approachable, trainable, and one will quickly find their way to the top of the pile for even better opportunities.

But I go back to my insistence that trades are not a replacement for higher education and that schooling isn't "just" about finding a job. There's more to life than making a paycheck and the world needs more people who are equipped to think about highly complex problems outside the scope of their profession.

[Fishindude77]

I wanted to point out for others that driving is a trade that is easy entry and low-cost since it only involves the cost of the license itself, and in some states, a brief training course. People immediately think of OTR trucking and what a mess of an industry that is, but it doesn't have to be. With just a little experience one can drive a dump truck, side dump, equipment hauler and get on with big construction projects, start making prevailing wage and doing year round work. In my county, the PW rate for a truck driver is between $50 and $60 per hour. Yep. To drive a truck. And that's not counting any overtime. I know people who are $100,000+ year truck drivers. Some are union and some aren't. They do work long hours (50-60 isn't uncommon) and Saturdays, but they are home every night. Fishindude is right... show up every day, do a good job, be approachable, trainable, and one will quickly find their way to the top of the pile for even better opportunities.

Great example !
Some other trades starving for help include anything remotely resembling a mechanic; auto repair tech, farm equip tech, heavy equipment tech, diesel and truck techs, etc., etc.
There are also lots of good jobs with the utility companies, phone, internet and satellite TV outfits, solar installers, in the oil & gas industries, etc.

We are always going to need college educated people, but using student loans and burying yourself in a mountain of debt without a plan is just plain stupid.
Plenty of ways to make a good living without tying up four or more years in college and spending ridiculous money.

[Snicks]

I'm far from an expert on this topic as we paid for our education and our kids.
As I understand it, the private lenders loans to students are still guaranteed by the federal government. This is why they lend freely.

Per my original post, if the government would just stay the heck out of it all together, then private banks would only loan money to those who either had co-signers, some type of assets for collateral, or if they really had strong feelings about the borrower being successful and paying back the loan. These loans would not be available to everyone, so universities would need to find ways to keep cost down if they wanted more students, and students would have to be much more thoughtful about borrowing.

I disagree with having cosigners. To me THAT is the crux of the problem. Students are borrowing far BECAUSE of cosigners. And, bankrupting the parents retirements to fund Johnny's college is the central problem. I don't WANT to cosign loans for anyone, not even my children. The problem is the COST of college far exceeds the reality of income for many people. I am sorry but we don't need classes in Beyonce or Lady Gaga or all kinds of other ridiculousness that costs more money. Streamline education.

[disneysteve]

I disagree with having cosigners.

Cosigning is almost always a bad idea. Our daughter took out some student loans, but she did it on her own. And my wife and I took out one loan that we used for her education. But no cosigned loans. I'd rather have the student take out the loan in their own name and then, if the parents are willing and able to help, they can help the student with repayment.

[Fishindude77]

Cosigning is almost always a bad idea. Our daughter took out some student loans, but she did it on her own. And my wife and I took out one loan that we used for her education. But no cosigned loans. I'd rather have the student take out the loan in their own name and then, if the parents are willing and able to help, they can help the student with repayment.

Which is exactly why student loans should be handled by private banking, keep the government out of it, and hold the borrowers to the same standards as any other real world loan.
The only way you would get the loan is if; somebody with credit or collateral co-signs, the student has some collateral, or the lender is convinced the student has a real solid plan to re-pay.

Nobody is forcing parents to co-sign anything and they shouldn't do it unless the kid has a solid plan for both their education and repayment of any loans.
Stricter borrowing standards might also encourage parents to save more for their kids education, if they think college is going to be a necessity.

[disneysteve]

The only way you would get the loan is if; somebody with credit or collateral co-signs, the student has some collateral, or the lender is convinced the student has a real solid plan to re-pay.

The problem with this is it pretty much eliminates any lower income students from attending college. If people think college is for the rich now, it will be even more exclusively for the rich then.