Did You Guys Worked Harder When You Were Younger?

[Singuy]

I am recently seeing this trend of young folks not working 40 hrs because of lifestyle choices. Their life practically haven't started, still haven't paid off their student loans and only dream of having a mortgage. I remember when I came fresh out of school, I picked up extra hours. My wife worked 6 days a week for a good 8 months so she can dump money into her almost 200k worth of student loans.

Is this a new movement? FIRE but without the FI? I find it kind of annoying. Was trying to give some hours to these people who tells me they need hours and money but rejects me almost every time.

[disneysteve]

Years ago, people just worked their butts off and sacrificed everything to get ahead. Over time, people gradually started to realize that that wasn't a great way to go through life. They didn't want to miss their kids growing up. They didn't want to miss family events. They didn't want to put in 12-15 hour days and constantly be sleep deprived. They wanted more balance. They wanted to participate in activities that didn't involve work. And they didn't want to wait until they retired at 65 to do it. They wanted to do it while they were young enough to enjoy it fully even if it meant earning less and being in debt longer. If done properly, I think that's really a net positive for our society. I know that with my generation (I'm 56) and those after me, the fathers are much more involved in raising the kids than the generations before us were. My dad was great but his job was to work and my mom's job was to raise the kids. That's not how it is anymore.

So yes, I think I worked harder when I was fresh out of school than many people do today. I didn't develop that balance until a bit later. My daughter was almost 5 when I quit my job because I was working way too much. I switched to a job that was fewer hours, much less on-call time, no weekends or holidays. It let me spend a lot more time at home with my family. Many young adults today have learned to prioritize that balance from day one. No longer are they married to their jobs at all costs. If I had to do it all over again, I would demand that balance from the start. I wouldn't take a job that expected me to work 60 hours or be on call every other night or work every weekend and holiday.

Businesses of all types have had to adapt to this societal change. For medical practices, it's one of many reasons why small independent practices are dying out. They need to merge into bigger groups to be able to share duties and spread out on-call responsibilities to multiple people so that each doc might only be on call once every 6 or 8 weeks instead of every 2-3 days. They can offer longer office hours without any one person having to put in more than 40 hours/week. Heck, I am full time and I only work 36 hours.

[ua_guy]

Is this a career for them, or just a paycheck until they find out what they really want to do / can find employment in their desired field? Views on work are rapidly shifting. People are questioning who sets the '40 hour' rule, and why should anyone go above/beyond for a boss or company which finds them immediately replaceable, or if the reward for hard work, is more hard work? A company who isn't willing to fund their retirement? Won't provide them adequate healthcare? I stand with the young people. You get what you pay for.

[disneysteve]

Is this a career for them, or just a paycheck until they find out what they really want to do

I don't think that's the only factor.

I work in urgent care. I switched to that after being in private family practice for 24 years. But quite a few of our providers have come to us straight out of school. They don't want to go into practices where they'll have to work long hours and be on call a lot. They want the set schedule, the fixed pay, the 7 weeks of PTO, and the full benefits that come from working for a major regional healthcare system, and I can't say I blame them. If I had discovered this job 10-15 years ago, I would probably be retired by now.

This is another reason why the independent private practices are fading out of existence.

[cypher1]

Definitely worked harder in my 20s when I dropped out of college at 20 to work full time in IT field. During so, i chose to work at an auto shop as a back up skill, which has been invaluable. I figured without school I should learn another trade even if it was more hobby initially. Definitely sacrificed a lot of time by hardly taking time off/or traveling until closer to 30 when I settled into home and refocused priorities. In my early 30s I realized my time was more valuable than having more money.

I can't speak or really comment on FIRE but without FI. Your situation of offering more hours to someone won't take sounds like they have different priorities. We could make assumptions for differences in generations ("Ok, boomer"), but i don't think that's fair either.

[disneysteve]

Your situation of offering more hours to someone won't take sounds like they have different priorities. We could make assumptions for differences in generations ("Ok, boomer"), but i don't think that's fair either.

Exactly. I do think, as I said, that overall, people's priorities have shifted when it comes to work-life balance.

[Singuy]

These are people with good high paying jobs like a pharmacist. The amount of money they make per day is good enough for daily life. I find folks who make under 20/hr to be more into the 40hr+ mindset as they have more trouble making ends meet.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Nope. We've never worked "hard". Right now is probably the hardest we've worked and we've never worked "hard". We prefer less money and less stressful jobs and working longer to working more. DH has deliberately refused promotions and different job opportunities because he wants time with me and the kids. We work hard mostly because we have a lot of projects but usually we spend a lot of time with the kids and each other. A lot of time. I realized we let a lot of things go with the house and messiness because we like to just hang out and do stuff. But now we can't and so we actually have to do stuff instead of vacation and have fun.

Before covid we laughed how we have too much money and not enough time off. He gets 21 days a year and it still doesn't feel like enough. He used to get 30 and we used it all. So no. We've never been hard workers. We prefer to have less and just try our best. Actually this was just the question I was about to ask. I sort of feel guilty listening to the fire podcasts.

[bjl584]

I've recently been shifting away from working hard and long to find more balance.

The cabin that we bought a couple years ago has definitely caused me to shift to more of a work less, enjoy life more mentality

Fortunately, I'm in a financial position to do so

[rennigade]

Im not working any harder now than I did when I started 10+ years ago. Ive always tried to have a balance. Work is nothing more than a paycheck. I fortunately like my job, but if I had enough money now to never have to worry about money again, I would no longer be at that job, or any job for that matter. Ive never had an interest in climbing the illusionary corporate ladder.

As for those today who are just starting out, I dont blame them one bit for not wanting to put in long hours. I know a lot of people who just make enough to do whatever they want to do. Travel, party, social activities, etc etc. They have no interest in a house with a white picket fence. They would rather have life experiences now. I dont have an issue with that, no would it matter if I did.

[ua_guy]

These are people with good high paying jobs like a pharmacist. The amount of money they make per day is good enough for daily life. I find folks who make under 20/hr to be more into the 40hr+ mindset as they have more trouble making ends meet.

"Like a pharmacist" -- Well, are they pharmacists, like Pharm-D's? Techs make comparatively nothing.

You are correct...if someone is making less than $20/hr in a high COL area, then making ends meet is a much more challenging proposition.

[riverwed070707]

Lots of generational studies that show this alternates generations and largely depends on your family structure growing up and it can be related to many other characteristics as well. Statistically, if you had an absentee father, you're more likely to prioritize family time. If you were a latch key kid in the 80 because both parents had to work full time to pay the bills, you're more likely to opt to be a stay at home parent or choose a job that gives you the flexibility to go to the PTA meetings and be at all the sporting events. On the flip side, women who had stay at home mothers are more likely to be career driven and want to "make their own way" vs relying on a husband to handle the finances. It's a cycle and the script will flip again.

For me personally, I do keep a good balance of working but with a relatively flexible job that allows me to be a present parent. Where I see the generational difference playing out in my own life is that my parents were very much trying to keep up with the Jonses and sacrificed retirement savings for new cars and a nice house, and as far as I can tell both (now divorced) will work well into their 60s. I prefer to live more modestly, place value on experiences over things and am on track to leave my W2 at age 41-42.

[disneysteve]

I find folks who make under 20/hr to be more into the 40hr+ mindset as they have more trouble making ends meet.

And that makes perfect sense. If you are making a comfortable income and are able to cover all of your needs, the drive to work more isn't really there. If, however, you're living paycheck to paycheck, you're more likely to jump at the chance to get extra hours. I see that at my job all the time.

[JBinKC]

I would only take overtime when forced to and always worked the minimum on my W-2s to get benefits and actually quit doing this dreg routine in my early 40s.

I came to the conclusion at a very young age that my time was much better spent in working for myself in unregulated activities like buying real estate/land at cycle bottoms and investing in stocks and learning to be self reliant on the expenditure side.

[Singuy]

"Like a pharmacist" -- Well, are they pharmacists, like Pharm-D's? Techs make comparatively nothing.

You are correct...if someone is making less than $20/hr in a high COL area, then making ends meet is a much more challenging proposition.

Yes I am trying to give my hours away for these newly grad pharmacist. And as for the cost of living I would say my city is low to medium, not too low but not San Fransisco either.