Flu shot & COVID vaccine, who is getting it or not?

[disneysteve]

I see that J&J just halted their Covid Vaccine trials due to some unexplained illnesses.
Back to the drawing board I guess

Not at all.

The public is just suddenly seeing the typical everyday process of pharmaceutical R&D. This is completely normal stuff. I've never done vaccine trials but I have been involved in clinical trials for other medications. There is a rigorous tracking and reporting process for identifying and evaluating any adverse events. Any time something happens, the primary question is always, "Was the adverse event related to the trial agent?"

Just because you are a patient in a clinical trial, it doesn't mean that everything that happens to you is due to the experimental drug - but that needs to be determined each and every time. If you develop a sore throat, was it because of the study drug? If you get a bruise on your arm, was it because of the study drug? If your ankles swell up, was it because of the drug? Or was your sore throat because your kid came home from school with Strep and gave it to you? Was that bruise because you whacked your arm while cleaning your garage? Did your ankles swell because you forgot to take your diuretic for a few days?

Pausing a study when something unexpected happens is exactly what should occur. The incident gets investigated. Once they determine the cause, they resume the trial unless it's found that the study drug caused the problem.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Not at all.

The public is just suddenly seeing the typical everyday process of pharmaceutical R&D. This is completely normal stuff. I've never done vaccine trials but I have been involved in clinical trials for other medications. There is a rigorous tracking and reporting process for identifying and evaluating any adverse events. Any time something happens, the primary question is always, "Was the adverse event related to the trial agent?"

Just because you are a patient in a clinical trial, it doesn't mean that everything that happens to you is due to the experimental drug - but that needs to be determined each and every time. If you develop a sore throat, was it because of the study drug? If you get a bruise on your arm, was it because of the study drug? If your ankles swell up, was it because of the drug? Or was your sore throat because your kid came home from school with Strep and gave it to you? Was that bruise because you whacked your arm while cleaning your garage? Did your ankles swell because you forgot to take your diuretic for a few days?

Pausing a study when something unexpected happens is exactly what should occur. The incident gets investigated. Once they determine the cause, they resume the trial unless it's found that the study drug caused the problem.

Except didn't the pharma CEO say they wanted 2 months after trials to analyze data and allow for side effects to crop up? That means pushing out minimally to early next year before deciding on if it's actually works and what are the side effects? Also these trials are on adults so we still have to figure out the children dose and the side effects. Of course this administration is saying "no thank you for the extra 2 month wait." And they wonder why people in the US are worried about the vaccine? We should be. We aren't doing science or people any favors. Instead we're politicizing vaccine development. I'll take it when another country is giving it out. I'd prefer to get in canada thank you very much.

[Snydley]

When I weigh potential long term effects from SARS-CoV-2 infection vs the vaccine there's absolutely no comparison. My co-worker recently got the Pfizer COVID vaccine (he's in the trial) and I measured his antibody response and it was amazing (far more antibodies than COVID survivors). I'm seriously considering entering the trial as well and enrolling my family.

[itsmejerry04]

I don't want tested so I can avoid the vaccine.
I was hoping to donate plasma

That's nice, donating plasma is important for those who become active in covid.

[Like2Plan]

When I weigh potential long term effects from SARS-CoV-2 infection vs the vaccine there's absolutely no comparison. My co-worker recently got the Pfizer COVID vaccine (he's in the trial) and I measured his antibody response and it was amazing (far more antibodies than COVID survivors). I'm seriously considering entering the trial as well and enrolling my family.

I'm impressed that you are able to test his antibody response. If you enter the trial, is there a chance you would be getting a placebo?

[LivingAlmostLarge]

When I weigh potential long term effects from SARS-CoV-2 infection vs the vaccine there's absolutely no comparison. My co-worker recently got the Pfizer COVID vaccine (he's in the trial) and I measured his antibody response and it was amazing (far more antibodies than COVID survivors). I'm seriously considering entering the trial as well and enrolling my family.

What is the long term side effects? Are their any other factors being looked at? Underlying conditions? Groups?

[~bs]

Not at all.

The public is just suddenly seeing the typical everyday process of pharmaceutical R&D. This is completely normal stuff. I've never done vaccine trials but I have been involved in clinical trials for other medications. There is a rigorous tracking and reporting process for identifying and evaluating any adverse events. Any time something happens, the primary question is always, "Was the adverse event related to the trial agent?"

Just because you are a patient in a clinical trial, it doesn't mean that everything that happens to you is due to the experimental drug - but that needs to be determined each and every time. If you develop a sore throat, was it because of the study drug? If you get a bruise on your arm, was it because of the study drug? If your ankles swell up, was it because of the drug? Or was your sore throat because your kid came home from school with Strep and gave it to you? Was that bruise because you whacked your arm while cleaning your garage? Did your ankles swell because you forgot to take your diuretic for a few days?

Pausing a study when something unexpected happens is exactly what should occur. The incident gets investigated. Once they determine the cause, they resume the trial unless it's found that the study drug caused the problem.

This is nicely said, from a medical professional. It is GOOD that they halt the study if there are potential issues with it. Other countries may choose to mass inject their populations, but I'm glad we don't. Politicians may say whatever they say to comfort the public that a vaccine is on its way, but yes there is a process in place. And yes, the death rate from covid is at the same level of the common flu, and will dip down much lower once a vaccine is in place.

[disneysteve]

the death rate from covid is at the same level of the common flu

Not even close. The COVID death rate is way higher.

Also, COVID is proving to have long-lasting effects in many patients which isn't typical of the flu.

COVID is a far more serious condition than the seasonal flu no matter how you look at it.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

This is nicely said, from a medical professional. It is GOOD that they halt the study if there are potential issues with it. Other countries may choose to mass inject their populations, but I'm glad we don't. Politicians may say whatever they say to comfort the public that a vaccine is on its way, but yes there is a process in place. And yes, the death rate from covid is at the same level of the common flu, and will dip down much lower once a vaccine is in place.

the long term effects have been substantially worse.

[Snydley]

I'm impressed that you are able to test his antibody response. If you enter the trial, is there a chance you would be getting a placebo?

I run COVID antibody tests at work. Yes 50% chance I'd get the placebo if in the trial, but it seems enrollment is full anyway. I think Pfizer will be announcing the results of phase III (if it actually prevents infections) in the next week or two. I'll be first in line for it, assuming it works.

What is the long term side effects? Are their any other factors being looked at? Underlying conditions? Groups?

The data is still new/coming out, it's this "long COVID"..many people are not getting 100% better after acute viral symptoms resolve. Brain fog, fatigue, heart inflammation, etc. months later. It is scary. COVID could become a pre-existing condition, and it could be impacting kids long term, even if 100% asymptomatic. We just don't know.

[disneysteve]

The data is still new/coming out, it's this "long COVID"..many people are not getting 100% better after acute viral symptoms resolve. Brain fog, fatigue, heart inflammation, etc. months later. It is scary. COVID could become a pre-existing condition, and it could be impacting kids long term, even if 100% asymptomatic. We just don't know.

This is the part that's even scarier than the disease itself. There's growing evidence of long-term consequences, even in patients who had no symptoms. We could have tens of millions of people with permanent heart and/or lung damage as a result of exposure to COVID. Long after COVID is controlled and behind us, we may still be dealing with the aftermath.

It's NOT just like the flu folks. It isn't magically going to go away. We aren't turning the corner. Wear your masks. Keep social distancing. And once there is a vaccine available, get it.

I'm really dreading what will happen over the next couple of months. We're already seeing a record number of cases but people are going to start ignoring all of the warnings and gathering for Halloween, Thanksgiving, Chanukkah, Christmas, and New Years which will just cause even greater spikes in the number of cases.

[QuarterMillionMan]

I heard these may help as a preventative measure so I'll give it a go.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I run COVID antibody tests at work. Yes 50% chance I'd get the placebo if in the trial, but it seems enrollment is full anyway. I think Pfizer will be announcing the results of phase III (if it actually prevents infections) in the next week or two. I'll be first in line for it, assuming it works.


The data is still new/coming out, it's this "long COVID"..many people are not getting 100% better after acute viral symptoms resolve. Brain fog, fatigue, heart inflammation, etc. months later. It is scary. COVID could become a pre-existing condition, and it could be impacting kids long term, even if 100% asymptomatic. We just don't know.

I'm curious if the vaccine prevents this entirely or just decreases symptoms.

[kork13]

DW & our boys went & got their flu shots today. The base still hasn't gotten their supply in yet (we're a small base, so apparently we're low on the priority list for getting it). I wonder if they'll eventually just tell us to go get it off base as well....

[disneysteve]

DW & our boys went & got their flu shots today. The base still hasn't gotten their supply in yet (we're a small base, so apparently we're low on the priority list for getting it). I wonder if they'll eventually just tell us to go get it off base as well....

That's disappointing. Our deadline at work for getting ours was October 20, although they extended it a week or so. If your base hasn't gotten them, can you just go to CVS or somewhere else?