Flu shot & COVID vaccine, who is getting it or not?

[bjl584]

On CNBC stocks jumped today on Pfizer’s announcement of 90% effectiveness of their vaccine.

I own a sizeable amount of Pfizer
I'm happy today

[frugal saver]

Question about that vaccine:

Does that mean that people were given the vaccine, exposed to Covid, and 90% didn't catch it? Or they were given the vaccine, went about their daily lives and only 10% caught it anyway? The article I read didn't really spell that out.

It would seem like for it to be accurately labeled as effective they would have had to test it against the actual virus.

[Like2Plan]

Question about that vaccine:

Does that mean that people were given the vaccine, exposed to Covid, and 90% didn't catch it? Or they were given the vaccine, went about their daily lives and only 10% caught it anyway? The article I read didn't really spell that out.

It would seem like for it to be accurately labeled as effective they would have had to test it against the actual virus.

I assume that they are measuring antibody response, but I don't know. They would not deliberately expose people to Covid-19. I saw it discussed in a hypothetical academic discussion only-- it is not considered ethical to expose to the actual virus.

[frugal saver]

I assume that they are measuring antibody response, but I don't know. They would not deliberately expose people to Covid-19. I saw it discussed in a hypothetical academic discussion only-- it is not considered ethical to expose to the actual virus.

So---I never get the flu. Ever. But if I was given a flu vaccine, and then didn't get the flu, would that mean that the vaccine was 100% effective? Because you have to make the claim that without the vaccine, the person would have gotten the flu, which isn't always the case.

Medical numbers always seem shaky to me. I like accounting numbers better.

[QuarterMillionMan]

Gov Gavin Newsom & the public health director gave a news briefing today. They said the #1 way COVID is spreading is at family gatherings. Not at restaurants, not at grocery stores, not at church, not even in the work place. But during family gatherings. Keep that in mind at your next family gathering for thanksgiving, Christmas, and new year's party.

[disneysteve]

Gov Gavin Newsom & the public health director gave a news briefing today. They said the #1 way COVID is spreading is at family gatherings. Not at restaurants, not at grocery stores, not at church, not even in the work place. But during family gatherings. Keep that in mind at your next family gathering for thanksgiving, Christmas, and new year's party.

I've been telling everybody I possibly can exactly this. I started before Halloween when I heard people talking about the parties they were having or going to.

Here's what I posted to my Facebook page two weeks ago:

Please, please, please ignore what our officials in Washington are saying and doing.

COVID is not just going to go away.
We have not turned a corner.
Cases aren't increasing because we do more testing.
We're not doing better than other countries.

I know it sucks but please stay vigilant.

Stay out of indoor restaurants and bars.
Do not host or attend indoor Halloween parties, Thanksgiving dinners, Hanukkah parties, Christmas parties or dinners, or New Years Eve parties.

Stay home. Wear a mask when you must go out. Maintain social distancing.

The number of cases is the highest it has been since the pandemic began.
This is far from over folks.

[Petunia 100]

I am getting a flu shot tomorrow, for the first time ever.

[Like2Plan]

They said the #1 way COVID is spreading is at family gatherings. Not at restaurants, not at grocery stores, not at church, not even in the work place.

Yes--all the instances of folks getting covid that I know of--a younger family member got infected with covid first. (But, the younger family member in some cases was out socializing and not necessarily taking precautions).

[disneysteve]

They said the #1 way COVID is spreading is at family gatherings. Not at restaurants, not at grocery stores, not at church, not even in the work place. But during family gatherings. Keep that in mind at your next family gathering for thanksgiving, Christmas, and new year's party.

This also makes perfect sense. In a restaurant, while it's true that people aren't wearing masks, they also aren't moving around the room and interacting with each other. You sit at the table with your party, you eat, and you leave. Plus restaurants are distancing tables and may have barriers up. At a family gathering, however, you move all around, interact with everyone else there, and may spend several hours together rather than just the hour or less you're typically at a restaurant.

[QuarterMillionMan]

Good point DS. Never thought of like that but that makes perfect sense.

[QuarterMillionMan]

Now I understand why bars are dangerous too. People stay 2 or 3 hours drinking, talking, making numerous trips to the bathroom, walking past one another, etc.

[Snydley]

I assume that they are measuring antibody response, but I don't know. They would not deliberately expose people to Covid-19. I saw it discussed in a hypothetical academic discussion only-- it is not considered ethical to expose to the actual virus.

They gave 10s of thousands of people the actual vaccine and 10s of thousands the placebo. The people in the trial didn't know if they received the actual vaccine or not. Next, they all live their lives as normal and after so many weeks-months Pfizer followed up with everyone and found out how many wound up with COVID, and over 90% of the cases were in the placebo group. So yes, some people in both groups were exposed to the virus but not deliberately. From these results it can be concluded that the vaccine protected people from COVID >90% of the time after they were exposed.

This is fantastic news.

[Like2Plan]

They gave 10s of thousands of people the actual vaccine and 10s of thousands the placebo. The people in the trial didn't know if they received the actual vaccine or not. Next, they all live their lives as normal and after so many weeks-months Pfizer followed up with everyone and found out how many wound up with COVID, and over 90% of the cases were in the placebo group. So yes, some people in both groups were exposed to the virus but not deliberately. From these results it can be concluded that the vaccine protected people from COVID >90% of the time after they were exposed.

This is fantastic news.

Thanks. I found this link (it must have been the one frugal saver was referring to). https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-re...didate-against
So, was it 90% of thousands of people who received the 2nd dose of the vaccine did not get covid or was it 90% of a smaller group?

[Snydley]

Thanks. I found this link (it must have been the one frugal saver was referring to). https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-re...didate-against
So, was it 90% of thousands of people who received the 2nd dose of the vaccine did not get covid or was it 90% of a smaller group?

So as I read it, of the 94 confirmed cases, over 90% were in the placebo group.

[disneysteve]

So as I read it, of the 94 confirmed cases, over 90% were in the placebo group.

It sounds like there are 43,000+ people in the study. They looked at the first 94 cases of Covid to develop in study participants and found that 90% of them were in those who received the placebo. At least that's how I'm reading this.

That's promising, but it's also preliminary and only looking at 94 patients out of 43,000+. Time will tell if as the case numbers rise if the percentage holds up. Hopefully it will. Even if it doesn't, just a 70% effective vaccine would be a huge breakthrough anyway. I'd take that shot in an instant.

The vaccines being developed are very unique and use completely different science than vaccines for other diseases. This is really cutting edge stuff.

I do see that statement also says protection is achieved 28 days after vaccination. That's a bit long relative to other vaccines I believe. Keep in mind that even if this vaccine starts being delivered at the end of 2020 or beginning of 2021, we're still going to have to get through the very worst period of the pandemic without the benefit of vaccination for the most part.

Stay home.
No indoor dining.
No indoor gatherings with anyone who doesn't live in your household.
No Thanksgiving dinners or Christmas dinners with extended family and friends.
No weddings, funerals, or birthday parties.
You should be limiting your contact with people who don't live with you as much as you possibly can, especially in indoor spaces and where masks are removed to eat and drink.