Back to school time - What are your kids doing?

[kork13]

what happens when the school gets their first case or cases of the virus? Will they continue in school, or will they suddenly have to switch to remote learning? And how many cases would it take to shut down school.

Good questions, and I'm honestly not sure how well the school districts have answered those questions... I know ours does have plans in place to transition to 100% virtual if required, and eventually to 100% in-person (though only to be considered at semester breaks)... But I'm not sure if they've defined quantitative metrics for when to make those changes.

Riverwed mentioned they had 1/3 elect to go 100% virtual... I'm curious how much of my district (and the country, really) will make that choice (where offered). The nerd in me would also compare that data to infection & death rates, just or of curiosity.

[disneysteve]

Are you against teachers having to be in their rooms all day even if students are 100% virtual?

I think that's a fine idea, and I think all of the teachers I know would support that fully. It's a much preferred situation to teach from the classroom rather than from their kitchen table or sofa, especially if they have a spouse working from home or have kids of their own at home. They want to teach. They just want to do it safely for all involved.

[disneysteve]

One other thing I had been thinking but left out was what happens when the school gets their first case or cases of the virus? Will they continue in school, or will they suddenly have to switch to remote learning? And how many cases would it take to shut down school.

See the article I linked to in the original post. We're already seeing the answer to those questions in the states where schools have already resumed. I think the latest figure this morning was that 2,400 students and staff are now quarantined. I believe that's in 6 states and school has only been open for a week or two. Extrapolate that out to 50 states and you could be looking at tens of thousands of people quarantined.

[rennigade]

I work at a university, students are coming back Monday. We've had 2 cases of covid from faculty/staff. Our school sends out an email every day saying how many positive cases, whether is none or one. Problem is, they dont actually say who it is? I know that HIPPA exists and that patients are protected, but on the flip side, we have to rely on that particular person remembering who they came in contact with. They do try to contact trace, but we all know that memories suck, even short term. Not to mention, I run into dozens of people each day and I dont even know who they are or what their names are.

[kork13]

I work at a university, students are coming back Monday. We've had 2 cases of covid from faculty/staff. Our school sends out an email every day saying how many positive cases, whether is none or one. Problem is, they dont actually say who it is? I know that HIPPA exists and that patients are protected, but on the flip side, we have to rely on that particular person remembering who they came in contact with. They do try to contact trace, but we all know that memories suck, even short term. Not to mention, I run into dozens of people each day and I dont even know who they are or what their names are.

Procedures may be different in different regions (because very little clear & authoritative information is being pushed from federal level).... But public health officials around here are saying that in general terms, coming "in contact" with folks in passing (walking by on the street or something) will be insufficient to risk infection, especially as long as one/both of you are wearing a mask. You just don't get enough exposure to become infected. They're concerned with people with whom a positive case spent at least 15min within 6 feet. People are generally going to remember who they spent that kind of time with.

[disneysteve]

in general terms, coming "in contact" with folks in passing (walking by on the street or something) will be insufficient to risk infection, especially as long as one/both of you are wearing a mask. You just don't get enough exposure to become infected. They're concerned with people with whom a positive case spent at least 15min within 6 feet. People are generally going to remember who they spent that kind of time with.

True, though it's also so important to have access to rapid testing, which we simply don't at this point (unless you're playing in the NBA or work in the West Wing). If I found out that there were a number of cases in my school, I'd want to get a test. Right now, access to testing, especially for asymptomatic people, is extremely limited.

I work in healthcare, front line seeing sick patients, and we struggle to get them tested. I am 100% sure I have seen patients with COVID who we just haven't captured because we weren't able to test them. Of course, that means those people continued to go about their business and likely infect others with whom they came in contact.

[~bs]

Procedures may be different in different regions (because very little clear & authoritative information is being pushed from federal level).... But public health officials around here are saying that in general terms, coming "in contact" with folks in passing (walking by on the street or something) will be insufficient to risk infection, especially as long as one/both of you are wearing a mask. You just don't get enough exposure to become infected. They're concerned with people with whom a positive case spent at least 15min within 6 feet. People are generally going to remember who they spent that kind of time with.

That is CDC guideline I believe. Real risk of contraction is within 6 feet and over 15 minutes. Longer the exposure and in closer proximity, greater the risk. Thats the reason why you're at greatest risk with members of your own household if someone is positive.

[disneysteve]

That is CDC guideline I believe. Real risk of contraction is within 6 feet and over 15 minutes. Longer the exposure and in closer proximity, greater the risk. Thats the reason why you're at greatest risk with members of your own household if someone is positive.

It's also why putting 20-30 kids in a classroom together for 7 hours a day is a problem.

[moneybags]

Besides the military, Im not sure if a workplace exists where you arent allowed to quit at any time? Thats the beauty of a free country. If people really do fear for their lives, they can leave their job and find another one. No one is being forced to return to work.

It's not so simple to quit a job that you need. It is even harder when you've invested years into a job that will pay you a pension at some point. I don't have any skin in this game. I just feel bad for all the parents and teachers that have to go through this.

[~bs]

It's also why putting 20-30 kids in a classroom together for 7 hours a day is a problem.

True. That is why it's important to follow the guidelines. If you can't do it in such a way to reduce the risks, then you shouldn't hold session in person.

[~bs]

It's not so simple to quit a job that you need. It is even harder when you've invested years into a job that will pay you a pension at some point. I don't have any skin in this game. I just feel bad for all the parents and teachers that have to go through this.

Agreed. But again, it's the situation many many people have already faced. And many times they didn't even have a choice in the matter. Public sector workers should feel lucky and thankful to still be employed.

I feel bad for EVERYONE, as we are all dealing with this. It's probably a first world phenomenon where people focus on specific segments that in reality aren't nearly as bad as others. We're so worried about inperson vs distance learning that we're not considering how the pandemic is affecting students and non-students. Are people considering the fact that shutting people off from contact at school, economic stresses, etc is causing mental health problems and suicides to skyrocket through the roof? What is being done to address this problem? The kids are safe at home, but many more are dying due to suicide. My guess is that many many more are falling to suicide now than they are to covid-19. Kauai, one of our islands with a population of 72K saw 4 separate youth suicides in 1 week during this crisis, extremely unusual. Out of 30 covid deaths in my state thus far, 0 are for youths.

A somewhat related statistic- 25% of young adults in the US have considered committing suicide in June.

https://qz.com/1892349/cdc-depressio...ince-covid-19/

[disneysteve]

I was only half listening to the news this morning but numerous reports of issues at schools in various places. One college has a sorority house quarantined after several students tested positive. Another college had multiple players on a sports team test positive. One school district in Arizona had to cancel their reopening plan after nearly half the teachers and staff called out sick (in protest, not because they were actually sick). As more and more schools return to in person classes, we're just going to hear more and more of these stories. I'm sure quite a few will start in person and be forced to return to virtual as a result.

Mental health is a very real issue for kids and adults and the whole pandemic has highlighted how awful mental health care is in this country. Unfortunately, I don't see that changing anytime soon until there is a national push for universal coverage and wider access to treatment.

[disneysteve]

Here is why in-person school is going to be a disaster and will quickly convert to virtual.

This is from the Indiana Board of Health guidelines that have been distributed:

1. Symptomatic patient not tested for COVID: must remain home for 10 days from symptom onset AND fever-free for 24 hours
2. Symptomatic patient with negative COVID test and no alternate explanation of symptoms: must remain home for 10 days and fever-free 24 hrs
3. Asymptomatic, negative test, confirmed contact with COVID-positive person: must remain home for 14 days
4. Asymptomatic, no test, confirmed contact with COVID-positive person: must remain home for 14 days

As you can see, almost every scenario, with or without symptoms, with or without a positive test, leads to a 10 or 14-day quarantine.

Parents are going to lie and send their kids in even if they are sick or have had a known contact. It has already happened in a couple of places. I heard one news story of 2 kids who went to school after testing positive themselves.

Schools that do reopen will be closed before you know it.

[Smallsteps]

Here is why in-person school is going to be a disaster and will quickly convert to virtual.

This is from the Indiana Board of Health guidelines that have been distributed:

1. Symptomatic patient not tested for COVID: must remain home for 10 days from symptom onset AND fever-free for 24 hours
2. Symptomatic patient with negative COVID test and no alternate explanation of symptoms: must remain home for 10 days and fever-free 24 hrs
3. Asymptomatic, negative test, confirmed contact with COVID-positive person: must remain home for 14 days
4. Asymptomatic, no test, confirmed contact with COVID-positive person: must remain home for 14 days

As you can see, almost every scenario, with or without symptoms, with or without a positive test, leads to a 10 or 14-day quarantine.

Parents are going to lie and send their kids in even if they are sick or have had a known contact. It has already happened in a couple of places. I heard one news story of 2 kids who went to school after testing positive themselves.

Schools that do reopen will be closed before you know it.

I truly understand that many people in teaching and or administration staff may have some risk with age and or underlying conditions or family with issues, i think this would be a great use of FMLA leave policy. They do not have to quit but delay their personal return.

I have said before that the gap in learning is widening each day. This gap becomes a income/ wealth gap later no doubt.
For younger children the socialization issue is not fixed by Zoom.
Many kids simply did NOT log on to any online lessons in a relative's kids class from March until June.
I do not think it is OK for them to hold everyone back when they do return ......and some kids will need a bunch of remedial learning.
The kids who did the work will and should seek out better alternatives ................then spend half a year while teachers try to play catch up with those who did not do the work.
There ARE other consequences that are long term ....such as the kids who will grow bored and lose interest in school as teachers are trying to pull those lagging behind up to class level or just passing a kid that did not learn the items to be successful to continue on.

It is IMO, a shame that the most talked about school item is NOT the education of kids ............. but rather a source of childcare.

In the example #3 above .........................................shows why get a test if you have to stay home anyway?
Some employers (that I have witnessed ), that require a test if you had contact with someone positive. They let the contact person return upon a negative test which could be a couple days.
Many grocery employees I know say if co-worker feels ill they are not even required to test to return and these are NATIONWIDE chains so i will assume it is not policy.

What is magic about 14 days ?
I have talked with a confirmed case who felt ill for 6 weeks but if they stayed home 14 days they could return assuming they had no fever ?...............................some had NO fever all along.
These tests seem very problematic as well:
The vast difference in tests as well as the many false readings.
2 people I know had tests with long swabs they said were quite painful as they go deep into back of nose/ throat ,,,,, 2 others had basic q-tip type swabs they just swirled around just inside your nose. Others had the blood tests. all came back negative but how could one be sure.

A few companies around me have a ton of tests and are handing them out to staff like cupcakes and then i hear other people say they are so hard to find or get.....

Not to mention people whom test positive and then same day or next day test negative...... I am not putting much faith in the tests.

[disneysteve]

Not to mention people whom test positive and then same day or next day test negative...... I am not putting much faith in the tests.

Why would someone have 2 tests in the same day, or even the next day if they were already positive? That doesn't make sense.

There is a percentage of false negatives with this, or any, diagnostic test.

14 days is based on CDC guidelines for the incubation period.

You are absolutely right that the educational impact is huge and will just worsen as this school year kicks off and many people remain virtual or end up virtual due to COVID outbreaks.

As for what private employers are doing, I'm sure most are focused solely on the bottom line and aren't following healthcare guidelines. Public schools, however, being government entities are more likely to adhere to the guidelines. They don't have a profit motive.