Back to school time - What are your kids doing?

[Smallsteps]

Notre Dame announced the same yesterday. They reopened and just 8 days later said they're closing again after 146 students and one staff member tested positive. I feel bad for all of the families that spent all the time and money and effort to move their kids in only to have to turn around and take them home again. And it all could have been avoided by just doing the right thing in the first place.

So if the incubation period is 14 days per CDC and in less then 8 days ( give a couple days for testing and results) they found all these positives ....perhaps the students came to campus WITH the virus. They give you a number of positive test but no other number to compare Were there any negative tests? An amount of positives out of how many people?
For colleges they are really struggling to explain why tuition is not cut since it is all online.

I think these hybrid school ideas (a couple days a week etc vs just stay home), are just as or harder on those whom need to arrange childcare for younger students to work.
Many lower income jobs are NOT known for the flexibility of schedules.
I personally do not know one person that has lost their job, although many have....... I would think some people may be able to find a person either temporarily or permanently laid off to help with childcare.

My friend recently needed to decide to either have her child return to school ( hybrid type thing) or stay home.
They chose stay at home NOT because the Virus but because the unknown of what narrative is pushed to cause small children more fear and anxiety then they may already experience and some missing clarity in the process of what if a case arose.

[ua_guy]

No kids. But my sister is a teacher with kids, nieces whom I love very much! Many of my extended family members are also teachers. All of them are in districts where the decision was made to start the year remotely. It gave me and them all a huge sigh of relief - they do not want to be exposed nor do they want to risk exposing their families. It does place incredible strain on them at home-- not only to teach remotely, but look after their own children who are learning remotely as well.

There is no narrative, no politics. We just all want to be safe and everyone is so eager for the day when this is under control.

[james.hendrickson]

My major concern here is that education has been done in a group setting for at least two centuries. It is not clear to me what the efficacy of online or distance learning really is. I suspect however that its not as efficacious as in person teaching.

I don't mean to be critical of educational administrator's decision making. Of course, you can't keep the schools open if your students and teachers are going to die.

[~bs]

I don't think online-only is good enough at all. I think it's a poor substitute for in-person learning and open interaction and discussion with professors and classmates. Live online classes are also a much better option than just watching prerecorded videos.

At this point in time, however, the risk of in-person classes is just way too high to continue the traditional model so online education is the next best option until conditions improve.

if we can agree that online only isnt as good, then wheres the justification as far as not providing discounts on tuition? why charge filet mignon prices then slap chuck roast steaks on the plates?

[ua_guy]

My major concern here is that education has been done in a group setting for at least two centuries. It is not clear to me what the efficacy of online or distance learning really is. I suspect however that its not as efficacious as in person teaching.

I don't mean to be critical of educational administrator's decision making. Of course, you can't keep the schools open if your students and teachers are going to die.

Legit concern. I don't think anyone intends for teaching/learning to be done remotely forever, though. The upside - I think there's a lot of learning going on, still. Not just through the remote coursework, but at home too. Not all families are fortunate enough to make the situation work and I wonder about them and how "we" whether it's as a neighbor, or as school districts, cities, states, or the country, could better support a temporary measure. All signs point to the fact that we NEED to get on top of this pandemic, and everyone becoming exposed and a bunch of people dying isn't a great answer, I agree with that.

[Like2Plan]

So if the incubation period is 14 days per CDC and in less then 8 days ( give a couple days for testing and results) they found all these positives ....perhaps the students came to campus WITH the virus. They give you a number of positive test but no other number to compare Were there any negative tests? An amount of positives out of how many people?
For colleges they are really struggling to explain why tuition is not cut since it is all online.

I believe the incubation period is 2-14 days.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7014672/

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...bation-period/


They generally do tell the positivity rate of the test--somewhere. I believe they said it was 14% positivity at UNC. I'll see if I can find a link.

Here you go (The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill):
"Officials wrote that between Aug. 10 and Aug. 16, the positivity rate on campus rose from 2.8% to 13.6%."
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronav...covid-19-clust

Here's the positivity rate at Notre Dame:
"The number of positive coronavirus cases at the South Bend, Indiana, campus surged by 75 since Tuesday when the school announced it would temporarily move all learning online. Approximately 1,287 people have been tested for the virus since the semester began on August 3, a small fraction of the school's 12,681 undergraduate and graduate students and 1,396 faculty members.

The updated testing data indicate a 17.2% positivity rate, which is more than three times the rate the World Health Organization recommends for states to reopen."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/notre-d...erson-classes/

I think these hybrid school ideas (a couple days a week etc vs just stay home), are just as or harder on those whom need to arrange childcare for younger students to work.
Many lower income jobs are NOT known for the flexibility of schedules.
I personally do not know one person that has lost their job, although many have....... I would think some people may be able to find a person either temporarily or permanently laid off to help with childcare.

My friend recently needed to decide to either have her child return to school ( hybrid type thing) or stay home.
They chose stay at home NOT because the Virus but because the unknown of what narrative is pushed to cause small children more fear and anxiety then they may already experience and some missing clarity in the process of what if a case arose.

The fear and anxiety is really a tough one. When my Mom was a child, they worried about polio outbreaks. It was not uncommon to have someone quarantined--for one of many infectious diseases. When I was growing up, we used to be worried about getting nuked. They had drills in school. Parents are supposed to reassure kids, but sometimes it is a tough job for parents because there is a lot we don't know. Maybe we know about as much about covid right now as they knew about polio back when my Mom was growing up.

I have a dear friend who unfortunately got covid (now a month later mostly recovered). How it unfolded: Her young 20 something son returned home from college. She only went out as necessary with a mask and gloves social distancing. The young son--was still socializing without gloves and a mask. First he came down with it and then a couple days later, she came down with it. Her Dr. told her--they don't know if she has immunity and whether she will get it again. And, if she gets it again, they don't know if the symptoms will be worse. So, she still has to wear a mask and gloves and social distance (and hope she has immunity).

She said that the contact tracers contacted them as soon as they received a positive test, but they only went back in time a couple of days.

[disneysteve]

I personally do not know one person that has lost their job, although many have....... I would think some people may be able to find a person either temporarily or permanently laid off to help with childcare.

Really? You don't know a single person whose job was impacted by COVID? I actually find that hard to believe. I probably know at least a couple dozen all across the country and even a couple in other countries, and in all different fields: hair salons/barbers, theme parks, medical facilities, gyms, schools, event planners, accountants, restaurant servers, and more. The wave of unemployment, which is still spreading, has affected people everywhere and in nearly every occupation. And, of course, our daughter was out of work for 4 months so I didn't have to look far to find someone who lost their job.

As for hiring an unemployed person to do childcare, as you correctly pointed out, the parents who are most in need of childcare are also much more likely to be lower income. They can't afford to pay someone to watch their kid all day while they work.

[disneysteve]

if we can agree that online only isnt as good, then wheres the justification as far as not providing discounts on tuition? why charge filet mignon prices then slap chuck roast steaks on the plates?

I agree. College tuition doesn't just pay for professors to teach. Part of that money also provides students access to facilities and services that they won't be getting when they are 100% virtual. Things like the library, the fitness center and pool, the campus center with the pool table and arcade, the theater, the art gallery, concerts, speaker programs, etc. If you are paying strictly for classes, the cost should be reduced somewhat.

[disneysteve]

if we can agree that online only isnt as good, then wheres the justification as far as not providing discounts on tuition? why charge filet mignon prices then slap chuck roast steaks on the plates?

I read an article about this today. Colleges are being financially devastated. Their operating costs are largely fixed but their income is down by tens of millions of dollars due to remote learning. They're also having to spend millions to get set up to actually deliver the remote learning. One small private school in California is anticipating a $110 million budget deficit this year. I'm sure for bigger schools, that number could be several times higher.

The one cost-cutting measure they've all been doing their very best to avoid is lay offs, but 60% or so of their expenses is payroll so they're really stuck. If the income is down by tens of millions, there's only so long they can keep paying everybody. If this situation drags on, we may start seeing a lot of unemployed college faculty and staff and ultimately the loss of some colleges that simply don't have the financial means to remain operational.

[Snydley]

The last time I checked my University's positivity rate was 0.16%. Over 8,000 tests, 16 positive.

[disneysteve]

The last time I checked my University's positivity rate was 0.16%. Over 8,000 tests, 16 positive.

That's great. And that's a school that can probably continue in-person education as long as the students and staff behave themselves and the school can maintain regular testing.

[~bs]

I read an article about this today. Colleges are being financially devastated. Their operating costs are largely fixed but their income is down by tens of millions of dollars due to remote learning. They're also having to spend millions to get set up to actually deliver the remote learning. One small private school in California is anticipating a $110 million budget deficit this year. I'm sure for bigger schools, that number could be several times higher.

The one cost-cutting measure they've all been doing their very best to avoid is lay offs, but 60% or so of their expenses is payroll so they're really stuck. If the income is down by tens of millions, there's only so long they can keep paying everybody. If this situation drags on, we may start seeing a lot of unemployed college faculty and staff and ultimately the loss of some colleges that simply don't have the financial means to remain operational.

While I empathize with the their situation, that is a moot point. You cannot advertise something, then switch and bait just because you're in financial difficulty. A restaurant cannot double the price of a meal after the customer already ordered just because his landlord increased their rent.

[disneysteve]

While I empathize with the their situation, that is a moot point. You cannot advertise something, then switch and bait just because you're in financial difficulty. A restaurant cannot double the price of a meal after the customer already ordered just because his landlord increased their rent.

Are any schools increasing the price after students have already signed on? I haven't heard that.

've seen plenty of restaurants hike their prices (and shrink their menus) as a result of COVID. I have no doubt that colleges will probably raise their prices to offset losses too.

[~bs]

Are any schools increasing the price after students have already signed on? I haven't heard that.

've seen plenty of restaurants hike their prices (and shrink their menus) as a result of COVID. I have no doubt that colleges will probably raise their prices to offset losses too.

Or maybe a better comparison would be to offer something else after something was already promised. Offer a 16 oz ribeye on the menu, then switch it to 8 oz and not letting the customer back out of the arrangement.

There's no issues with hiking prices, shrinking menus BEFORE the committment was made.

[mumof2]

I know it is different in Australia, we have a couple of states that are worse than others..but our state is basically back to precovid living..we still wipe everything down, sanitize our hands and social distance...some of us wear maks but that is a choice...school is back to normal..I can't imagine how you guys feel