Stores and restaurants re-closing due to COVID

[Fishindude77]

I think its fine for teachers to not return...but they should also get paid at a reduced rate. They are doing much less work from home. Same goes for my job. Its difficult to do my entire job from home. If our college students do not return, my group should probably be furloughed, or we should be paid at a reduced rate. Thats the reality, which most people will refuse to admit cause their ego gets in the way.

I agree with this. I've got a family member that is a teacher and he is doing very little, spends a few hours a week on some online stuff, virtual staff meetings, and phone calls. Also observed my grandchild's (kindergarten) online classes, they lasted about 30-40 minutes -vs- the normal four hour session. No way in heck the teachers are putting in much work effort under present circumstances.

I also realize that you can't just start cutting teachers from the payroll or drastically reducing wages, or you will lose them and it may be tough to get them back. Were this a private business without unions, you would cut the workforce substantially, retain the best and provide the remaining staff a full days worth of work every day doing something, even if that meant the some of the teachers were cutting the grass or mopping the hallways. 60-70% Of our property taxes currently support the local school system, so if all of these facilities, buildings, programs, athletics, etc. that we pay for are going to be shut down long term, there should be some tax reductions due to the citizens.

This is a crummy deal. We really need to push to get the kids back in the classrooms as soon as possible (mask free), and fully open the schools. The decisions need to be made at the local levels. Some areas are barely affected but are stuck living under statewide regs because a particular metro area has significant problems.

And, teachers are not underpaid. It's a part time job, 180 days (in their contract) per year -vs- the average full time worker who puts in 250 days per year. Do the math and the wages aren't too bad.

[~bs]

I think its fine for teachers to not return...but they should also get paid at a reduced rate. They are doing much less work from home. Same goes for my job. Its difficult to do my entire job from home. If our college students do not return, my group should probably be furloughed, or we should be paid at a reduced rate. Thats the reality, which most people will refuse to admit cause their ego gets in the way.

Agreed on this. In my state, the teachers were getting paid full salary for doing very little. Not taking care of underprivileged kids at all, and for the rest of the students, emailing assignments and doing zoom meetings once a week.

I feel pretty bad for the fall semester students of schools doing distance learning only. They're paying tens of thousands of dollars for tuition, but not getting a real college experience.

[Goldy1]

I am in Michigan. Masks are required in stores starting Monday. Stores must enforce it like put up a sign. I think it's law. I have only in person shopped a handful of times, but surprised to see so many mask free faces. It doesn't feel normal at all. It's just a twilight zone. I like staying home with my kids, floating in our little pool and playing cards. I got my hair done at a salon today. I wore a mask. All anyone talked about the 2 hours was covid. I was happy to be back in my home after. lol.

[rennigade]

I'd say pretty much every teacher in the country would strongly disagree. I don't know why anyone would even think that. Talk to a few teachers and ask them what their experiences have been with remote learning. It is way more work. They've had to come up with entirely new lesson plans that work virtually. They've had to pretty much design everything from scratch rather than using the materials they've depended on previously. They also have to become IT support and help walk everyone through any difficulties they're having (as well as solve their own tech issues). Giving each kid the attention they need is far harder as they can't just stroll over to their desk and help them out. Most are putting in longer hours to keep up with the demands.

Sorry, but suggesting that teachers should be paid even less than their already low salaries is ridiculous.

Of course they would disagree. No one wants to be paid less. It seems like what you're saying about teachers having it more difficult now, being IT and working longer is glorification of the reality. I also know several teachers, my sister being one of them. None of them are having to work more. All of them have specific hours that they can be reached on zoom. Want to guess how many students reached out to them for help...zero. The students have a portal they go to to grab assignments which are fluff, and they submit everything online. Teachers arent hosting zoom meetings with entire classes 40 min at a time, or whatever a period is when they're in school. They may in the fall, thats to be determined. The only reason a teacher would be working longer is because they suck at computers, which are a lot of them. They themselves cant figure out how to access things or navigate through their system. Its not because they're teaching more.

Also, the east bumble PA section of the state I live in must be the Goldilocks zone of teachers making a lot of money...which is ironic because its such a depressed area. I think our district is one of the lower ones and you max out at $76k....with a huge pension for life. Other districts pay closer to $90k at max. Ive heard that the carolina states pay pretty low, but that was from friends who worked there. May just be city specific. I dont feel sorry for someone who works part time (all teachers,) sitting on huge retirements and getting paid a lot (in my area.)

[rennigade]

And, teachers are not underpaid. It's a part time job, 180 days (in their contract) per year -vs- the average full time worker who puts in 250 days per year. Do the math and the wages aren't too bad.

This. No one ever factors in how many days they work per year. Everyone still thinks they work a full time job like the rest of america. Their hourly rate is higher than most people working. You'll always hear how many hours they dedicate after the work day to grading, planning, etc. Yeah, join the real world. So do most people (work extra hours after their day is over, for gods sake.)

[Like2Plan]

By The New York Times | Source: Johns Hopkins University

[disneysteve]

L2P, it's really important to recognize that the death rate isn't the only thing that matters. It is true that probably 99% of people who get COVID will survive, but that doesn't mean those other cases are all "harmless" as has been suggested. As we learn more and more about this disease, we're finding significant and serious complications, even in younger patients. I saw a great list that focuses on this.

For every one person who dies:
19 more require hospitalization
18 of those will have permanent heart damage
10 will have permanent lung damage
3 will have strokes
4 will have neurological damage affecting things like coordination and cognitive function

So "only 1% fatal" becomes:
3,282,000 dead
62,358,000 hospitalized
59,076,000 with heart damage
32,820,000 with lung damage
9,846,000 with strokes
13,128,000 with neurological damage

[james.hendrickson]

L2P, it's really important to recognize that the death rate isn't the only thing that matters. It is true that probably 99% of people who get COVID will survive, but that doesn't mean those other cases are all "harmless" as has been suggested. As we learn more and more about this disease, we're finding significant and serious complications, even in younger patients. I saw a great list that focuses on this.

For every one person who dies:
19 more require hospitalization
18 of those will have permanent heart damage
10 will have permanent lung damage
3 will have strokes
4 will have neurological damage affecting things like coordination and cognitive function

So "only 1% fatal" becomes:
3,282,000 dead
62,358,000 hospitalized
59,076,000 with heart damage
32,820,000 with lung damage
9,846,000 with strokes
13,128,000 with neurological damage

Disneysteve - whats the assumed population at risk here? The continental United States?

[Like2Plan]

L2P, it's really important to recognize that the death rate isn't the only thing that matters. It is true that probably 99% of people who get COVID will survive, but that doesn't mean those other cases are all "harmless" as has been suggested. As we learn more and more about this disease, we're finding significant and serious complications, even in younger patients. I saw a great list that focuses on this.

For every one person who dies:
19 more require hospitalization
18 of those will have permanent heart damage
10 will have permanent lung damage
3 will have strokes
4 will have neurological damage affecting things like coordination and cognitive function

So "only 1% fatal" becomes:
3,282,000 dead
62,358,000 hospitalized
59,076,000 with heart damage
32,820,000 with lung damage
9,846,000 with strokes
13,128,000 with neurological damage

A few days ago I noted that there is about a 3-5 week lag between getting the disease and dying. Everything started to open back up again "about" 5 weeks ago, but the death rate had still been going down (but we should start to see a change--right about now). The graph shows the death rate is climbing back up again.

[disneysteve]

Disneysteve - whats the assumed population at risk here? The continental United States?

The population of the US is about 328,000,000.

[disneysteve]

A few days ago I noted that there is about a 3-5 week lag between getting the disease and dying. Everything started to open back up again "about" 5 weeks ago, but the death rate had still been going down (but we should start to see a change--right about now). The graph shows the death rate is climbing back up again.

Very true. It looks like our rate is now about 5 times higher than Canada's so that's certainly concerning, as is the out of control situations in places like Florida and Texas, both places that greatly resisted following CDC recommendations, were late to close and early to reopen, and refused to issue a mask law, which Florida still hasn't done.

[~bs]

L2P, it's really important to recognize that the death rate isn't the only thing that matters. It is true that probably 99% of people who get COVID will survive, but that doesn't mean those other cases are all "harmless" as has been suggested. As we learn more and more about this disease, we're finding significant and serious complications, even in younger patients. I saw a great list that focuses on this.

For every one person who dies:
19 more require hospitalization
18 of those will have permanent heart damage
10 will have permanent lung damage
3 will have strokes
4 will have neurological damage affecting things like coordination and cognitive function

So "only 1% fatal" becomes:
3,282,000 dead
62,358,000 hospitalized
59,076,000 with heart damage
32,820,000 with lung damage
9,846,000 with strokes
13,128,000 with neurological damage

Are you sure your numbers are correct? It adds up to 178mil. Total population is 328 mil. It indicates that 55% of the people that get covid will have a serious problem, which doesn't appear to be the case.

Another way to look at the data is that roughly 3.25mil confirmed cases in the US. CDC estimates 10X the number of cases are unconfirmed, or 32.5mil cases total. That means that roughly 10% of the entire population has already gotten the virus, and it's hardly been the end of the world.

[disneysteve]

Are you sure your numbers are correct? It adds up to 178mil.

No, those things overlap. For example, of the patients hospitalized, some will have strokes, some will have heart and/or lung damage. Those aren't all separate groups.

[disneysteve]

That means that roughly 10% of the entire population has already gotten the virus, and it's hardly been the end of the world.

I'd say it's been pretty darn serious with at least 137,000 deaths, many times that in hospitalizations, a near-complete shut down of the US and world economies, etc.and there's no sign of it letting up, at least in the US where we've refused to adequately address it.

[~bs]

No, those things overlap. For example, of the patients hospitalized, some will have strokes, some will have heart and/or lung damage. Those aren't all separate groups.

Gotcha. Your numbers are still A LOT, surprisingly high. Where are you pulling them from?

62million hospitalized would mean that 18% of people that get it is hospitalized. That is a really high rate.