Sometimes, getting rich can be skipped.

[TexasHusker]

Because housework took so much time and effort. "The husband and children need to to eat breakfast, so I'd better get up, start a fire in the coal-burning stove and get it warmed up enough to cook on..."

My wife prepares breakfast and dinner for our family most days, although she traded in the coal stove for a Viking a while back.

[TexasHusker]

Ugh, gross and offensive..

I realize traditional family roles and values are currently out of vogue, but we have personally embraced and enjoyed them. My wife retired from teaching about 10 minutes after bearing our first son - she looked at me and declared "we aren't institutionalizing this baby - deal with it." That was the end of that debate.

Fast forward 16 years, she's never missed a soccer game, concert, or golf tournament, has served on the PTA, various booster clubs, and has graciously hosted the quasi- "go-to" house for various friends in the neighborhood. She presided over a ping pong tournament yesterday. I lost in round 1. There is scarcely an hour during the summer when friends of our kids aren't in our kitchen or hanging out.

Gross and offensive, I know.

[Nutria]

There simply isn't a dollar figure that is a suitable replacement for staying at home and raising the children that you were blessed to bear.

Ugh, gross and offensive..

Since he didn't specify who'd stay home withe the children, I find your comment very heteronormative, thus and requiring eight (EDIT: twelve) semesters of intensive reeducation in the Wellesley College Women's Gender Studies Department.

[Like2Plan]

The concept of institutionalizing our offspring and contracting out much of their raising to a third party, for the betterment of the bank statement (or for something more stimulating - take your pick), is yet a very recent phenomenon: Such would have been unthinkable throughout most cultures, throughout most of human history, until a few decades ago, in all but the most impoverished family circumstances.

Whether or not this is progress for the family unit, or degradation of it, is debatable, though my opinion is the latter.

TH,
Throughout human history, folks put their children to work at a very young age to help out with the family circumstances...

For example, one of my great-grandfathers worked in a twine mill at an early age (he was 9 when the census data was collected). So did his sibs (starting as early as age 6 AFAIK--that was what was reported in the census). Before the industrial age most folks lived on farms. Children were put to work on the farm starting at an early age.

I think childhood as we currently know it is a relatively recent phenomenon.

[TexasHusker]

TH,
Throughout human history, folks put their children to work at a very young age to help out with the family circumstances...

For example, one of my great-grandfathers worked in a twine mill at an early age (he was 9 when the census data was collected). So did his sibs (starting as early as age 6 AFAIK--that was what was reported in the census). Before the industrial age most folks lived on farms. Children were put to work on the farm starting at an early age.

I think childhood as we currently know it is a relatively recent phenomenon.

My daughter picked weeds and wild grass yesterday for $5. She's 13. On Monday I paid her $5 to scoop poo-poo.

[Like2Plan]

My daughter picked weeds and wild grass yesterday for $5. She's 13. On Monday I paid her $5 to scoop poo-poo.

It is hardly a comparison to the scope and responsibilities that children were given prior to this golden era of childhood.
You did say, "such would have been unthinkable throughout most cultures, throughout most of human history," which I find a little disingenuous and really no comparison to childhood of modern times.

[Like2Plan]

Here is an link from the History Channel

http://www.history.com/topics/child-labor

"The minimal role of child labor in the United States today is one of the more remarkable changes in the social and economic life of the nation over the last two centuries. In colonial America, child labor was not a subject of controversy. It was an integral part of the agricultural and handicraft economy. Children not only worked on the family farm but were often hired out to other farmers. Boys customarily began their apprenticeship in a trade between ages ten and fourteen. Both types of child labor declined in the early nineteenth century, but factory employment provided a new opportunity for children. Ultimately, young women and adult immigrants replaced these children in the textile industry, but child labor continued in other businesses. They could be paid lower wages, were more tractable and easily managed than adults, and were very difficult for unions to organize."

So, throughout history they didn't need as much childcare as we do these days....

[Nutria]

"They could be paid lower wages, were more tractable and easily managed than (men), and were very difficult for unions to organize."

Just like women now.

[Outdoorsygal]

The concept of institutionalizing our offspring and contracting out much of their raising to a third party, for the betterment of the bank statement (or for something more stimulating - take your pick), is yet a very recent phenomenon:

But in this me me generation, the thought of raising your own child can actually be offensive as you give up some of your ego

There was a time when the majority of people put children first. That time is no more. And this is coming from someone who worked part time (10 hrs week) while my child was under 4 years old. I regret my motives were all about me me and not my child. He didn't come first. Sadly this is the norm.
Those 10 Hrs did damage. But from ages 5yrs- on I was home except possibly one- two hrs, at his request,to stay after school to play with friends. I owned a Marketing company for 10+ years but re-arranged my schedule around his school schedule. He also went to grandmas house some days over the summer so I could keep working my business

[TexasHusker]

But in this me me generation, the thought of raising your own child can actually be offensive as you give up some of your ego

There was a time when the majority of people put children first. That time is no more. And this is coming from someone who worked part time (10 hrs week) while my child was under 4 years old. I regret my motives were all about me me and not my child. He didn't come first. Sadly this is the norm.
Those 10 Hrs did damage. But from ages 5yrs- on I was home except possibly one- two hrs, at his request,to stay after school to play with friends. I owned a Marketing company for 10+ years but re-arranged my schedule around his school schedule. He also went to grandmas house some days over the summer so I could keep working my business

How refreshing to hear.

[TexasHusker]

Here is an link from the History Channel

http://www.history.com/topics/child-labor

"The minimal role of child labor in the United States today is one of the more remarkable changes in the social and economic life of the nation over the last two centuries. In colonial America, child labor was not a subject of controversy. It was an integral part of the agricultural and handicraft economy. Children not only worked on the family farm but were often hired out to other farmers. Boys customarily began their apprenticeship in a trade between ages ten and fourteen. Both types of child labor declined in the early nineteenth century, but factory employment provided a new opportunity for children. Ultimately, young women and adult immigrants replaced these children in the textile industry, but child labor continued in other businesses. They could be paid lower wages, were more tractable and easily managed than adults, and were very difficult for unions to organize."

So, throughout history they didn't need as much childcare as we do these days....

I'm not quite sure how all of that relates to paying a day care or sitter to raise our kids, but continue as you were.

[Nutria]

I'm not quite sure how all of that relates to paying a day care or sitter to raise our kids, but continue as you were.

You're almost as snotty as sv2007, and have forgotten what you wrote 9 hours ago: "The concept of institutionalizing our offspring and contracting out much of their raising to a third party, for the betterment of the bank statement (or for something more stimulating - take your pick), is yet a very recent phenomenon: Such would have been unthinkable throughout most cultures, throughout most of human history, until a few decades ago, in all but the most impoverished family circumstances."

Five and six year old children quite regularly work in factories in the 1800s. Since most people throughout history have been in the most impoverished family circumstances, getting them to work doing something productive for the family was vital for survival.

[TexasHusker]

You're almost as snotty as sv2007, and have forgotten what you wrote 9 hours ago: "The concept of institutionalizing our offspring and contracting out much of their raising to a third party, for the betterment of the bank statement (or for something more stimulating - take your pick), is yet a very recent phenomenon: Such would have been unthinkable throughout most cultures, throughout most of human history, until a few decades ago, in all but the most impoverished family circumstances."

Five and six year old children quite regularly work in factories in the 1800s. Since most people throughout history have been in the most impoverished family circumstances, getting them to work doing something productive for the family was vital for survival.

I don't argue that children today have perhaps the best living conditions in the history of the planet. Back in the day, people also were considered "adult" at around 13 or 14, even bearing children at that age.

That said, the phenomenon of handing a 6-week child over to a day care or institution to raise is a recent one. I think it's a little nutty myself, but to each his own.

Then again, I think a lot of things are nutty - like people protesting outside on Pennsylvania Avenue to stop global warming to save the polar bears, yet the next day, many of the same ilk are fighting tooth and nail to have the right to abort a pregnancy.

And then there's the military announcing that it is going to pay for transgender surgeries.

And then there's the Clintons, Bill having a secret airport meeting with the judge presiding over the investigation of our next president. No conflict there!

Interesting times we are in. What was right is now disgusting and offensive. What was disgusting is now promoted as the norm. Words to the contrary are bigoted hate-speech.

Things are pretty nutty any more. And I've digressed badly.

[Nutria]

I don't argue that children today have perhaps the best living conditions in the history of the planet. Back in the day, people also were considered "adult" at around 13 or 14, even bearing children at that age.

I thought that too, until I get into genealogy. Even in the 1600s, you'd be surprised how late in their 20s many women waited to have children.

[TexasHusker]

I thought that too, until I get into genealogy. Even in the 1600s, you'd be surprised how late in their 20s many women waited to have children.

My grandma had my mom at 14.