1 in 4 restaurants may not reopen

[disneysteve]

Ive always disliked the hindsight is 20/20 comments. Its silly talk. Its easy to preach after the fact on what should have happened.

I'm not talking about hindsight. I'm talking about decisions that were roundly criticized at the time they were being made. Every disaster movie starts with government officials ignoring scientists. This has been no different. There was a great documentary about pandemics and the COVID situation is playing out step by step almost exactly the way that documentary said it would. Nothing that has happened has come as any surprise to doctors, public health officials, and epidemiologists. The problem all along has been politicians ignoring the advice and warnings from those people. So much illness and death and economic impact could have been prevented had things been done properly from the start.

[bjl584]

I'm not talking about hindsight. I'm talking about decisions that were roundly criticized at the time they were being made. Every disaster movie starts with government officials ignoring scientists. This has been no different. There was a great documentary about pandemics and the COVID situation is playing out step by step almost exactly the way that documentary said it would. Nothing that has happened has come as any surprise to doctors, public health officials, and epidemiologists. The problem all along has been politicians ignoring the advice and warnings from those people. So much illness and death and economic impact could have been prevented had things been done properly from the start.

Isn't that the theme of pretty much everything? Politicians get in the way of the people that know what they are doing and screw things up?
All wars in modern history, natural disasters, terrorist attacks, recessions, and now a pandemic.

[~bs]

Again, much easier to shut down when there are far less people. A quick search shows the US has 323,000,000 more people than australia. On paper, it sounds simple. Yep, just close everything, shut down all flights, close all roads/borders, etc etc.

Imagine if back in early Feb it would have been announced that all international flights and domestic flights were going to be cancelled. People would have rioted. This was a zero win situation for everyone. There is/was no scenario that would please everyone. Ive always disliked the hindsight is 20/20 comments. Its silly talk. Its easy to preach after the fact on what should have happened.

This is my opinion as well. Generally speaking, re evaluating situations and decisions based on an honest reflection of the events and sentiment at the time isn't that easy to do, but it is the only way to fairly evaluate.

US citizens generally have a lot more freedoms than Chinese. In some situations, it has benefitted us greatly, in others, the freedom means that people will choose to act in a way that doesn't advance public interest. Can't have it all.

[~bs]

I put this in the same category as deaths in nursing homes. Every loss soul from this virus is an absolute tragedy. When you hear the monthly mortality rate has increased 300% in a nursing home it is absolutely horrifying, but when you consider the average duration is <6 months it puts it into a bit more perspective.

Similarly with restaurants, I've watched many in my area that only make it for a few months and then fail under normal conditions. A quick google search of average lifespan of restaurants states 5 years, with up to 90% failing in the first year.

Starting up a restaurant or any other business generally means having enough cash assets to handle startup costs and riding out initial losses. Overall, owning a business is tough, making money is tough. If it was easy, and generated high levels of return, then everyone would be doing it.

[mumof2]

Imagine if back in early Feb it would have been announced that all international flights and domestic flights were going to be cancelled. People would have rioted. This was a zero win situation for everyone. There is/was no scenario that would please everyone. Ive always disliked the hindsight is 20/20 comments. Its silly talk. Its easy to preach after the fact on what should have happened.

Thats the point people think it is okay to riot rather than listen to the people who know...many of our cases in our state were from people coming back from the US and off the cruise ships...so it affected people world wide not just your country so as much as people might have rioted maybe it wouldn't have ended up so bad there if they had shut things down sooner...even with your 323 million extra people...and its not preaching after the fact many US states are opening things back up for the economy sake and yet you atill have so many people with the virus...so what is more important peoples lives or making money??

[rennigade]

so what is more important peoples lives or making money??

You're right. Lives are more important. We should probably keep everything closed until a vaccine is discovered sometime mid 2021. I would be ok with that. My wife and I have the funds to weather the storm...not so sure about the rest of the country. I love working at home. In the two months ive worked from home, ive gained 80 hours back of not having to drive. This is also good for my mind, body and spirit. Those are the things that matter. Not the global economy and people being able to make a living.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

No but the US is a society of independent selfish people or else we'd have socialized medicine. We believe that everyone can "make" it and we don't need social programs or the greater good. That can be a problem in and of itself.

[disneysteve]

No but the US is a society of independent selfish people

Well not all, but roughly a third to a half. We're seeing it in action right now with efforts to contain COVID. You've got a large group refusing to wear masks to protect others, even to the point of harassing those who are wearing them. There are even businesses some places refusing to let people in with a mask on. It's insanity but that's where we are today.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Well not all, but roughly a third to a half. We're seeing it in action right now with efforts to contain COVID. You've got a large group refusing to wear masks to protect others, even to the point of harassing those who are wearing them. There are even businesses some places refusing to let people in with a mask on. It's insanity but that's where we are today.

enough that we con't have socialized single payer system. You have people thinking it'll never happen to them. But then at the same time they are refusing to acknowledge we already have single payer called medicare and people refuse to give it up.

[~bs]

Well not all, but roughly a third to a half. We're seeing it in action right now with efforts to contain COVID. You've got a large group refusing to wear masks to protect others, even to the point of harassing those who are wearing them. There are even businesses some places refusing to let people in with a mask on. It's insanity but that's where we are today.

I actually really don't understand this. If people don't want to social distance or whatever, when the go out... FINE. At the very least wear a stupid mask.

All locales are different, but around here, almost all businesses make it a policy to wear a mask with right of refusal of service if people don't comply. Some people take the mask wearing to an extreme and wear it around the house, outside of the house, in the car when going shopping (despite only 1 person in the car), etc. I pretty much strap the thing on when I'm going into the grocery store or other areas with a lot of people, then pull it back off afterwards.

[myrdale]

the US is a society of independent selfish people

I think Ayn Rand would be proud.

Honestly though, I have a coworker who suffered from a heart attack this past week. +350 pounds, drinks and smokes a pack a day and I don't think he is 50 yet. How does socialized medicine handle that? Why should society have to pay for his personal life style choices? And then again what if we had socialized medicine and society decided NOT to pay for the results of his life style choices. Either support his bad habits or death panels.

[disneysteve]

I actually really don't understand this. If people don't want to social distance or whatever, when the go out... FINE. At the very least wear a stupid mask.

Masks are a HUGE topic of discussion in the Disney community right now as Disney is requiring masks at Disney Springs and when the parks reopen in July. One person posted, "We are anti-mask. We will not go into any business that requires a mask to enter." It's really sad that people will so proudly brag about their stupidity and selfishness. They don't live in NJ but I pointed out to them that if they did, they wouldn't be able to enter any business at all since wearing a mask is state law. I asked what they would do then, but of course they didn't answer me.

[disneysteve]

I have a coworker who suffered from a heart attack this past week. +350 pounds, drinks and smokes a pack a day and I don't think he is 50 yet. How does socialized medicine handle that? Why should society have to pay for his personal life style choices? And then again what if we had socialized medicine and society decided NOT to pay for the results of his life style choices. Either support his bad habits or death panels.

Society ALREADY PAYS for those people. That's what so many who oppose universal healthcare just don't seem to understand. You pay in the form of higher health premiums. You pay in the form of higher taxes. You already pay for everyone to get care right now.

If someone without insurance goes to the hospital, they run up a 4 or 5 or 6-figure bill and apply for Charity Care. The bill gets waived so the patient pays nothing. Who pays? WE DO. Charity Care is a government-funded program that reimburses hospitals for care for the uninsured. So it's funded by our tax dollars, right now, today. In that sense, we already have a form of socialized medicine, in addition to Medicaid, Medicare, and Tricare.

Why would an actual universal healthcare system be better? Right now, the millions of uninsured and under-insured people often delay seeking treatment as long as possible because they are afraid of what it might cost them. By the time they finally seek care, their condition has progressed and worsened and is much more costly to treat. If cost wasn't a factor, they'd be much more likely to get things taken care of sooner when they are easier and cheaper to treat and more likely to recover and avoid costly complications.

[~bs]

Masks are a HUGE topic of discussion in the Disney community right now as Disney is requiring masks at Disney Springs and when the parks reopen in July. One person posted, "We are anti-mask. We will not go into any business that requires a mask to enter." It's really sad that people will so proudly brag about their stupidity and selfishness. They don't live in NJ but I pointed out to them that if they did, they wouldn't be able to enter any business at all since wearing a mask is state law. I asked what they would do then, but of course they didn't answer me.

Exactly. If they don't want to abide by the policy, then don't go. lol If they're dumb enough to buy a pass, then not comply with the rules for admission (or to stay in the park), that's their choice. People do plenty of dumb stuff to get kicked out of disneyland, nobody is going to cry over some rule breaker getting ejected.