Talking yourself out of fun is no fun :)

[siggy_freud]

Hey all,

More of a rambling post than anything else. Trying to be a good saver/spender, but sometimes it's just no fun!

Here is the setup:

I am big into cars. It's a hobby of mine. I don't smoke, I don't drink very much, I don't spend huge amounts on fancy clothes, big dinners out, etc. But I do spend money on cars. Fast cars, old cars, off-road cars (sometimes). I generally buy used, but occasionally new, but have managed to not lose my shirt in selling them but good research, and finding the right buyers. For example, I owned a Jeep wrangler, which hold their value remarkably well. I bought it for $36.5k, drove it for a year, put 13k miles on it, and sold it for the same amount.

In any case . . . years back in highschool and college I had an old pickup that I drove every day, and worked on as a hobby with my friends. Part way through college I sold it to get something more suited to adulthood. Seven years later I found it and bought it back, and started the process of doing a full restore on it, with the intent on selling whatever I owned at the time and driving the 66 pickup everyday once it was done.

During these years I've also been paying down student loans pretty aggressively. I started with about 70k in loans, and 5 years in I'm down to about 25k. Here is where the fun comes in.

My student loans cost me about $280 a month. I have about 12k I have saved set aside to knock out one of the larger of the three remaining loans, which will lower my payments another $120 a month or so.

I'm probably about 15-16k from finishing my project when you factor in the parts left, and body/paint, which is the biggest expense.

I'm still pretty young (early 30s), wife and I are in a pretty stable field of work (tech) and jointly make about $210k a year. We have manageable debt, our home has good equity and just swapped it over to a 15 year fixed (2.8%). Despite feeling like I am in a good spot, I just cant bring myself to NOT toss that money at the loan and instead put it toward my passion, which is finishing my project. I have literally done everything on this from stripping and painting the frame, to wiring the whole thing better-than-factory.

But all you fiscally responsible folks on here must have gotten to me, as now I feel like I'm denying myself some fun to do the "right" thing. And that's not a bad thing, but sometimes, it's not a fun thing either .

Anyways, sorry for the long rant.

I guess my question is, do you ever hate making the right financial decision?

[Nutria]

We have manageable debt, our home has good equity and just swapped it over to a 15 year fixed (2.8%).

Danger, Will Robinson, danger!!!!

Those mindsets ("manageable debt" and "our home has good equity") just about guarantees that you're living above your income.

I guess my question is, do you ever hate making the right financial decision?

Not anymore, but most of us who had piles of consumer debt got that way because we wanted to have fun instead of being responsible. There's still stuff that I want to buy that I don't, but not wanting to be in CC debt again overrides wanting to buy more fun stuff.

Do you live in a VHCOLA? Or over-bought the house? (Both?) With $210K/annum, you should be swimming in cash and have zero debt but mortgage, instead of paying a measly $10K/annum on the SL. Oh, yeah: "manageable debt" and "our home has good equity".

Also, what about EF, children and retirement?

[TexasHusker]

I'll play.

What are your long-term goals?

What are your core financial values?

Once you answer these, it will be easier to give you advice.


As an example, my long-term goal was to leave "the company" and be on my own by age 40. It didn't happen until 46.

On the other hand, having money for "retirement" doesn't do a thing for me. If I ever "have" to retire, just shoot me in the head already. I enjoy being busy and making money. Take that from me you might as well see what my life insurance policies pay.

Giving is a core financial value of mine. I like to give a chunk of my income away - I try for it to be at least $2K a month, some months $3K.

Cars are a core value of mine. We drive a Range Rover and a Lexus. I've owned over 60 cars in the last 31 years - most of the brands of cars over that time. I love cars.

Fly fishing is a core value. I figured out a way to have a cabin next to a fly fishing stream and turn it into a business, too. Otherwise I could have never afforded that cabin.

Houses? Meh. We have a very nice house in a nice neighborhood, but it's not the "latest and greatest", nor does it have crown moulding in the garage. So a nice house is down on the list.

Nice clothes? Meh. I have about 6 shirts I wear all the time, and I buy all my jeans at Dillards when they are on two-for-one. I have one pair of shoes I wear daily, ex except for Sunday am.

Get the idea? Give us some more info. and you'll get more reliable feedback.

[siggy_freud]

Danger, Will Robinson, danger!!!!

Those mindsets ("manageable debt" and "our home has good equity") just about guarantees that you're living above your income.



Not anymore, but most of us who had piles of consumer debt got that way because we wanted to have fun instead of being responsible. There's still stuff that I want to buy that I don't, but not wanting to be in CC debt again overrides wanting to buy more fun stuff.

Do you live in a VHCOLA? Or over-bought the house? (Both?) With $210K/annum, you should be swimming in cash and have zero debt but mortgage, instead of paying a measly $10K/annum on the SL. Oh, yeah: "manageable debt" and "our home has good equity".

Also, what about EF, children and retirement?

We owe $232 on the house, and have owned it for about 2.5 years. It was bought new at $252. We bought it on a 5% down, as at the time we were fairly new to our jobs, but the market was on the upswing. We were making about 110k at the time jointly. Since we have about 100k in equity and our salaries have steadily risen we refinanced to a 15 year to pay it off sooner. So I don't think we're living beyond our house means.

We also own a rental that's been paying for itself for a few years now. It was actually our first home purchase, which is where our cash went, since again, the market was primed for it. That one is on a 30-year note at 3.5%, but since rent covers it all + maint and a profit, there isn't a big push to pay it off sooner. We owe about 90k on that one.

So while I think in most cases your red alert sentiment is accurate, I don't think it is in this case.

We carry about a 6 month EF, and contribute each paycheck to retirement, and stock options with my wife's company. My pre-tax contributions are limited as a contractor since my wife has those options available, but I do post-tax contributions still.

Our combined income has risen about 30k in the past month or so due to strong salary negotiations at both jobs.

No kids, and are going to keep it that way.

Car payments are $250 and $300 (mine/hers). Both get 45+mpg, so we save quite a bit on gas. We both drive a lot, so we also didn't want to be doing 60-70 miles in a clunker each day. Comfort is important to me given that my commute is an hour each way.

No CC debt.

I imagine a year from now we WILL be swimming in cash, assuming we keep on the track we're on. Right now outside of the EF we have about 20k, which is what I'm going to poach to pay off more student loans. I have been snowballing on those payments, paying off the smallest first, then kicking that money in towards the next largest.

So when I say manageable, I really mean it. For example, the cars we could have put a lot more down on, but decided to put just enough down to cover the first two years depreciation, as the interest rate was 1%. It keeps us a bit more liquid in that we wouldn't have to PAY money to get out from under it, but also let us keep cash to put at student loans, which are ~4-4.5% interest.

So my motivation in finishing the truck was both from a personal/hobbiest perspective, but also looking at it from the point of once done, I can sell my current ride and lose that payment as well.

[siggy_freud]

I'll play.

What are your long-term goals?

What are your core financial values?

Once you answer these, it will be easier to give you advice.


As an example, my long-term goal was to leave "the company" and be on my own by age 40. It didn't happen until 46.

On the other hand, having money for "retirement" doesn't do a thing for me. If I ever "have" to retire, just shoot me in the head already. I enjoy being busy and making money. Take that from me you might as well see what my life insurance policies pay.

Giving is a core financial value of mine. I like to give a chunk of my income away - I try for it to be at least $2K a month, some months $3K.

Cars are a core value of mine. We drive a Range Rover and a Lexus.

Fly fishing is a core value. I figured out a way to have a cabin next to a fly fishing stream and turn it into a business, too. Otherwise I could have never afforded that cabin.

Houses? Meh. We have a very nice house in a nice neighborhood, but it's not the "latest and greatest", nor does it have crown moulding in the garage. So a nice house is down on the list.

Nice clothes? Meh. I have about 6 shirts I wear all the time, and I buy all my jeans at Dillards when they are on two-for-one. I have one pair of shoes I wear daily, ex except for Sunday am.

Get the idea? Give us some more info. and you'll get more reliable feedback.

Would love to work for myself in 10-15 years time, which I think is feasible given the line of work I am in. That said, the company I'm with now is very hands off and lets me do my thing, so provided they can continue to meet my salary expectations I wouldn't mind continuing to work for them. In 10-15 years I'd like to go to a 30 hour work week and free up time to do my side projects that I enjoy more though.

Core financial values:
Safety is one of them. We actively work to ensure that we can live our lifestyle on either of our salaries. That said, recent health issues with elders in the family remind me that you never know when you'll go, and you can't take it with you. We're not having kids, so I want to ensure we strike a good balance of fun and safety.

Travel is a core value for my wife. We try and take a big trip and a small trip each year. We have a rule to save double the cost of the trip. So if we're taking a 5k trip (like our upcoming delayed by 2.5 years honeymoon) we have to save 5k first, and THEN another 5k to pay for the trip before we go.

Cars are a value to me. Since for the last 5 years I've had at least a 45 min 1-way commute I like what I drive to be comfortable and fun. Cars have ranged from a Boss 302 Mustang, to a CLA45 AMG. Right now I drive a Volt as it's cheap, gets good MPG, and lets me kick 300-400 more per month at student loans. But cars are also a hobby of mine. I'll spend a good 5-6 hours in the garage most weekends working on the project. I like the challenge of learning to do something I don't know how to (like weld for example) and this project keeps me intellectually busy.

House - we really like our house. It's only 2.5 years old, has everything we need. We do want to do upgrades to it over time, but since I'm handy it'll be materials-only cost to us. We were looking at another home recently with a huge garage, but those homes are 3000 sqft, which is doublt what we need. So we said no.

Clothes - My wife more so than me. Like you, I wear pretty much the same 4-5 things and just rotate. The last thing I think about in the AM is what I'm going to wear. So it often is whatever I get to first that is clean.

Eating out - My wife likes to eat out. She does so more often than me (mostly Sushi). But we likely spend 200 or so a month eating out with friends or grabbing a drink.

Computers/games - We both enjoy computer games, so we have some nice computers that I built. We likely spend a few hundred a year on various games between the two of us, but spread across the hundreds of hours of entertainment, it's a relative bargain.

Like you, I never see either of us "retiring" but perhaps shifting work, making less, and doing things we enjoy a bit more. But I think I'll always at least try to be pulling an income. I'll just be doing it more on my terms, and perhaps slower .

Hope that info helps a bit .

[TexasHusker]

If you aren't going to have a family, you can pretty do what you want. You don't really have anyone depending on you, including your wife.

On the job front, dont underestimate what your life is suddenly like when your new boss is an a-hole. You need to be building your "Kiss my a**" fund, because sooner or later, it will be demanded.

I would get the student loans paid, and then start jacking with cars immediately thereafter.

People laugh when I tell them this, but the three Ferraris I owned were also the cheapest cars I ever owned - I made money on all of them. It can be done, as you pointed out.

Eating out and travel are fun. We set aside about $700 per month for eating out because we enjoy it so might with our kids.

[siggy_freud]

If you aren't going to have a family, you can pretty do what you want. You don't really have anyone depending on you, including your wife.

On the job front, dont underestimate what your life is suddenly like when your new boss is an a-hole. You need to be building your "Kiss my a**" fund, because sooner or later, it will be demanded.

I would get the student loans paid, and then start jacking with cars immediately thereafter.

People laugh when I tell them this, but the three Ferraris I owned were also the cheapest cars I ever owned - I made money on all of them. It can be done, as you pointed out.

Eating out and travel are fun. We set aside about $700 per month for eating out because we enjoy it so might with our kids.

Yeah definitely want to build a kiss my a** fund. Would like to keep it separate from the emergency fund because really, I could stay with a crummy boss but wouldn't want to. In fact, my wife got her most recent job after I suggested she quit her current one that had a terrible management chain. Like, the WORST. She was out of work for 6 months looking, but ended up at one of the best places to work in the US and loves it.

Fortunately the market for tech/development project managers is pretty hot. Sure, it could cool off, but with the way tech is going I think it'll be a long time before it happens. I have been fortunate to be able to line up interviews and get job offers usually in 1-2 weeks when needed, but again, fortunately, it hasn't been needed much.

If you're smart about it you can have fun with cars and not lose a bunch of money (or sometimes any). I have lost some. The CLA45 I lost about $1,500 on, but drove it for 6 months, it made for a cheap $250 a month rental in the end.

[TexasHusker]

Cla45? That's a beast. I have a love hate relationship with MB.

DO consider a kiddo or two. Trying to have them is a LOT of fun, plus they spice life up pretty good and it's about a thousand times more fun than my Ferraris were. I'll be bored off my a** when they are grown. It's pretty cool watching them do all kinds of stuff, throw them high up in the air and catch them, buy them Toyota Tacomas and new Titleist AP2s.

My wife basically ended up forcing my hand on kiddos when I was in my mid 30s. Soon after kid #1 was born, I thought sheesh why didn't we do this sooner and have a couple more? Fun times.

[Singuy]

I guess my question is, do you ever hate making the right financial decision?

This question can be asked in another way..."do you hate being a responsible adult?".

Being responsible sux..but that's adulthood..not growing up yourself just makes you a liability to everyone else who loves you.

[TexasHusker]

This question can be asked in another way..."do you hate being a responsible adult?".

Being responsible sux..but that's adulthood..not growing up yourself just makes you a liability to everyone else who loves you.

Please stop. The guy doesn't even have a dependent. He's not letting anyone down. And even if he did have a dependent, he's pretty solid financially.

If he was working on cars while his wife was winning the bread, while he's chewing cigars and swigging rum, then you might have a point.

It's arrogant to infer that someone is an irresponsible adult because they choose to utilize their money in a manner that's different from you. Saving $16,000 a month and not buying food because your parents are providing your meals...I could certainly pass a little judgment on that situation but I will refrain.

[dawnwes]

Seems with your income and current expenses, you could get that student loan knocked out pretty fast and then focus on your hobby/passion.

[Fishindude77]

Keep working on the truck, if that's your thing. Life is short, have some fun along the way.

Just don't get financially stupid to where your toys jeopardize critical financial obligations. And don't borrow for the truck work, pay as you go.

[Singuy]

Please stop. The guy doesn't even have a dependent. He's not letting anyone down. And even if he did have a dependent, he's pretty solid financially.

If he was working on cars while his wife was winning the bread, while he's chewing cigars and swigging rum, then you might have a point.

It's arrogant to infer that someone is an irresponsible adult because they choose to utilize their money in a manner that's different from you. Saving $16,000 a month and not buying food because your parents are providing your meals...I could certainly pass a little judgment on that situation but I will refrain.

What? I wasn't referring to what the op is doing. I was just answering the question on how I feel about "hate making good financial decisions"...in which people on this forum needs to make constantly because we are generally pretty responsible with our money.. I am not a huge fan of a lot of financial decisions I made..like dumping all my paycheck into a mortgage while not taking vacations or getting a new car...it sucked..but it was the responsible thing to do. So the answer to his question is "yes, I hate making good financial decisions, but it's the responsible thing to do or else everyone around you pays the price."

Peeps who never have to think about being responsible usually ends up in debt, can't pay for their child's education, and can't take care of their parents.. In return they have to be taken care of by everyone around them which is not what the op is doing..so why the attack?

Did I hit a nerve or something?..sheesh. You don't know that I pay for my parents medical expenses and I put down cash for their house...and they are millionaires themselves so yeah..we don't buy food because that will just be wasteful if the parents want our company and want us over.

[TexasHusker]

What? I wasn't referring to what the op is doing. I was just answering the question on how I feel about "hate making good financial decisions"...in which people on this forum needs to make constantly because we are generally pretty responsible with our money.. I am not a huge fan of a lot of financial decisions I made..like dumping all my paycheck into a mortgage while not taking vacations or getting a new car...it sucked..but it was the responsible thing to do. So the answer to his question is "yes, I hate making good financial decisions, but it's the responsible thing to do or else everyone around you pays the price."

Peeps who never have to think about being responsible usually ends up in debt, can't pay for their child's education, and can't take care of their parents.. In return they have to be taken care of by everyone around them which is not what the op is doing..so why the attack?

Did I hit a nerve or something?..sheesh. You don't know that I pay for my parents medical expenses and I put down cash for their house...and they are millionaires themselves so yeah..we don't buy food because that will just be wasteful if the parents want our company and want us over.

Probably just hit a nerve. I'm sorry.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Pay off the loans and then enjoy the cars. I've meet a lot of people who buy and sell used cars. Gives me heartburn. I hate car shopping. That being said I think it's an inexpensive hobby for many.

Now if you would like to give your friends help and shop for cars and say "hey I found a deal on X, Y, Z" Please give me a call. I'd love to have someone who just magically produced a car for me for a year or two then trade to something else.

I always toy with a minivan for a few years then i'd like to get back into something smaller but hate the idea of losing money on the cars, not even buying new but used. But it's still depreciating. Versus buying a a car and driving it till it literally dies.

My mom and MIL have/had cars that 20 years olds. Sigh. See where we get that habit from.