why do we hide talking about money?

[myrdale]

I did since 2006 and I have $145k. I assumed she did too but her and my dad have $30k. Something went wrong. Even sitting in cash there should be more.

When you don't understand finances even basic finances and won't talk about it. But you invest with a person and then they steal the money it's frustrating. I"m hoping that proving it was stole (which I suspect why their last advisor was fired and sanctioned) might make them decide that they can't trust people.

If this is the case, can they get any of it back. You said they paid cash. Do you mean by check or literally they handed over $5,000 per year for the last 10 years? Did they keep receipts?

I could understand the money disappearing from 1 or 2 years worth of transactions, but how for 10 years? I don't know much about lawsuits, but this sounds like one.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

My parents won't do it and can't do it. My mom acknowledges that she doesnt' understand when I point out they should have a better real return than 1.5% but she doesn't get it. $1 million in the bank and generating $18k/year.

[Smallsteps]

My parents won't do it and can't do it. My mom acknowledges that she doesnt' understand when I point out they should have a better real return than 1.5% but she doesn't get it. $1 million in the bank and generating $18k/year.

Do you know who their advisor is ? Can you find out ?
If a firm it is better to take down a bad apple at the very least they must be providing a statement. Making a consumer complaint is a good route.
i would consult a lawyer or perhaps a advocate for elder care that have experience as many older people are being taken for a ride.
If your mother is that confused perhaps it is a suggestion to seek a POA over their finances.

[creditcardfree]

All I know is that when I worked for a major mutual fund company some Raymond James advisors appeared to be churning their customer accounts. No way to prove on our end that their customers didn't request the changes but it sure seemed like a lot of changes all the time. I pray that you can find a way to help your parents. A lawyer sounds like a good first place to start to lend some direction.

[Nutria]

I dont see much benefit of discussing money, especially if you have money or are good with money. The less people know about your finances, the less chance of them asking for money. Not to mention, its a touchy subject as well. Its difficult to give advice without angering the other party.

This can't be emphasized enough.

There are a lot of people for whom jealousy, greed, bitterness, entitlement, bitterness all come to the fore when they discover you have something that they don't. That's why we hide talking about money.

[kork13]

There are a lot of people for whom jealousy, greed, bitterness, entitlement, bitterness all come to the fore when they discover you have something that they don't. That's why we hide talking about money.

But doesn't that just perpetuate the problem? Just because somebody could become jealous about and/or want my money doesn't mean that they're going to get anything -- it's a simple answer: No. (Unless they're gonna hack/steal/etc. my money/stuff, which becomes a totally separate criminal issue...and why are you hanging around someone of that character anyway?) Besides, in most cases, whether you're poor or wealthy, there are signs for each & people will generally peg you for it regardless. So what's the problem if you talk with people about your finances, or theirs? Other people's feelings are their own responsibility, not mine. If they choose to be jealous or bitter or entitled, that's for them to work out.

But by talking openly about money & finances, you're able to remove the mystique surrounding it, people won't feel so intimidated by their finances, and they'll see that they aren't alone in learning to manage their finances. You can help others, or ask for help; learn, or teach about it; and so on.

[~bs]

sometimes, it is what it is. attempting to buck tide will only leave you drowned. your choice though if you want to fight the current, nobody stopping you.

[disneysteve]

But doesn't that just perpetuate the problem? Just because somebody could become jealous about and/or want my money doesn't mean that they're going to get anything -- it's a simple answer: No. (Unless they're gonna hack/steal/etc. my money/stuff, which becomes a totally separate criminal issue...and why are you hanging around someone of that character anyway?) Besides, in most cases, whether you're poor or wealthy, there are signs for each & people will generally peg you for it regardless. So what's the problem if you talk with people about your finances, or theirs? Other people's feelings are their own responsibility, not mine. If they choose to be jealous or bitter or entitled, that's for them to work out.

But by talking openly about money & finances, you're able to remove the mystique surrounding it, people won't feel so intimidated by their finances, and they'll see that they aren't alone in learning to manage their finances. You can help others, or ask for help; learn, or teach about it; and so on.

THIS!

It wouldn't be a touchy subject if everyone wasn't so secretive about it. And I believe there wouldn't be so many people in financial trouble if everyone was more open about it. How many people are trying to keep up with the Joneses unaware of the fact that the Joneses either a) earn 3 times more than them or b) are in debt up to their eyeballs? People are afraid or embarrassed to say no to something, like going out with friends, because they can't afford it when the reality is often that the person asking can't afford it either. If everybody was open and honest, they could say, "Hey, let's not go out to dinner. Come over to my place and we'll make a pizza instead."

We talk often about the need for better financial education. If we were all open about our situations, you would know who best to ask for help. I've seen way too many examples of someone asking another person for help even though that person is as bad or worse off so they really can't help.

Secrecy doesn't help anyone.

[Nutria]

But doesn't that just perpetuate the problem?

Talk doesn't cure pettiness, jealously, bitterness, greed and entitlement.

why are you hanging around someone of that character anyway?

Because they're family, and you see them at holidays and family get-togethers.

But by talking openly about money & finances, you're able to remove the mystique surrounding it, people won't feel so intimidated by their finances, and they'll see that they aren't alone in learning to manage their finances. You can help others, or ask for help; learn, or teach about it; and so on.

Only if they realize they have a problem managing their finances, and want to learn to manage their finances.

[Nutria]

THIS!

It wouldn't be a touchy subject if everyone wasn't so secretive about it. And I believe there wouldn't be so many people in financial trouble if everyone was more open about it.

I think you all are wearing rose-colored glasses.

How many people are trying to keep up with the Joneses unaware of the fact that the Joneses either a) earn 3 times more than them or b) are in debt up to their eyeballs?

The solution to that is to grow up and stop trying to keep up with the Joneses, not yapping about your finances.

People are afraid or embarrassed to say no to something, like going out with friends, because they can't afford it when the reality is often that the person asking can't afford it either.

"Sorry, we've spent our restaurant budget this month."

And people (the inviters) can get insulted by that, too. "It's only money... Stop saving so much... you can't take it with you... etc, etc, etc."

We talk often about the need for better financial education. If we were all open about our situations, you would know who best to ask for help. I've seen way too many examples of someone asking another person for help even though that person is as bad or worse off so they really can't help.

Secrecy doesn't help anyone.

But it keeps the peace. Haven't you all heard, "never talk about politics, religion and money unless you want to start an argument"?

[Smallsteps]

[QUOTE=disneysteve;n704915
It wouldn't be a touchy subject if everyone wasn't so secretive about it. And I believe there wouldn't be so many people in financial trouble if everyone was more open about it. How many people are trying to keep up with the Joneses unaware of the fact that the Joneses either a) earn 3 times more than them or b) are in debt up to their eyeballs? People are afraid or embarrassed to say no to something, like going out with friends, because they can't afford it when the reality is often that the person asking can't afford it either. If everybody was open and honest, they could say, "Hey, let's not go out to dinner. Come over to my place and we'll make a pizza instead."

We talk often about the need for better financial education. If we were all open about our situations, you would know who best to ask for help. I've seen way too many examples of someone asking another person for help even though that person is as bad or worse off so they really can't help.
Secrecy doesn't help anyone.[/QUOTE]

We as a country have a lack of or just bad education on the subject. It leaves people to learn from try and fail . Worse yet people who zero knowledge faking it.
Too many bad actors out there preying on the lack of education.
Far too many people are invested in the idea that people cannot handle their money, MANY in government would LOVE the opportunity to take over for you they always think they can spend your money better then you.

In so many posts here people share deals they see or tricks or tips. Maybe share banks or CU with better rates even tax ideas but in real life... face to face we will not help friends or family with the same advice or ideas?

In the case of a parent for example if they are taken for a ride and run out of money to care for themselves a child might just find the issues they avoided just became a problem for themselves. if parents are out of money often the children end up taking care of them.
There is zero need to give exact details (especially to some people) but in general conversation can go along way.

Most people only willing to talk or Listen after there is a problem. We have a big problem now with many that simply did nothing to get ready for retirement.
I personally witnessed so many cases recently of people that simply did not have a plan at all now it is too late for many to start over and their golden years will be sad and poverty filled.
I am seeing many in their 40s and 50s back living with parents and quite frankly will not survive after their parents pass. There has been numerous stories that when a person passes they have been put in a freezer or something so the SS checks keep coming.

I have asked what had happened a few did not enroll in 401k at work because they did not understand what they were offered for investments. Were either afraid to ask or found no one to help.Some thought they had more time did they not know their own age?
Another older lady told me investments are evil because the one time she went big, someone had sold her ENRON.
Seriously it was hard to not just say WOW out loud.

[Nutria]

I have asked what had happened a few did not enroll in 401k at work because they did not understand what they were offered for investments. Were either afraid to ask or found no one to help.Some thought they had more time did they not know their own age?

Never forget that half the population has below-average (technically median) intelligence: HALF THE POPULATION is slightly -- or more than slightly -- DIM!! Stupid, even.

And most of us are swayed by emotion (which advertisers have been mercilessly exploiting over and over and over day after day after day for a century!!

[mumof2]

I think part of the problem is that most people want things now and can get them now whether they have the money or not..it is so easy to whip out your cards and pay rather than cash...which makes it easier to spend...I think if you carry cash it makes you more vigil towards your money...if you use your card it is harder to keep track....credit is so much easier to get these days....I just think that people are not taught about money....so they just do what they are taught or guess or by trial and error....I have taught my girls about money and hopefully they will teach their kids....I have spoken to family most don't want to learn....it is hard one

[Smallsteps]

I just went over this thread again and I simply think many of us are on complete separate pages on what a conversation about finances would be like.

In the case of OP I think it is wise to look into the situation especially if they think their parents are being taken for a ride by someone or even if they could make changes that would earn more to stretch the money that they have.

In the general cases of talking money....I think some seem to think it is some tell all brag session that opens your finances for those you are talking to. While in discussion it is easy to use your own experience as "see this works" it does not need to be a tell all thing.

I also see a great deal of belief that it is a matter of intelligence or education, I find that a bit snooty and short sided.
I have seen some " educated" people who think they know it all about finance but in a reversal of fortune ending in a position with very little they fall apart.
I have also seen people with low income but the ability to stretch it so far it was amazing.

Money handling is a skill and with any skill to improve takes practice and adjustment to how you approach the skill as things change.
I look at it like golf sometimes you may need to adjust your swing and practice the part of your game you may be having trouble with. There are basics but most people need to customize to fit their abilities and limitations not try to copy exactly someone else's swing or buy the same equipment and think you are set.

As you can see throughout past posts and blogs etc we all seem to know someone that may need (or NEEDED we find out after the crisis) a bit of advice or help even being a sounding board.
It is not always young people either. Many people may need to look around and realize what worked for you before may not be working as well anymore and adjustments may need to be made.

When ever I have had money conversations it is more of a what if game..... if you came into a bunch of money...... if you lost your job........ you need to start over........
Older people, I ask what if you had this sort of access or range of options they have now........ some ideas they may not have even been aware of.
I have learned more options from others and made adjustments from the information as well.

It is always enlightening because sometimes the plan of what to do with a windfall ......has more costs/ realities then they thought of before. Taxes or long term costs involved with lets say a major purchase etc.
The what if for job loss / start over scenario..... opens their minds to what jobs would they do if they would change careers or would they just expect the same exact money/ job/ situation to pop up again.

No one can stop people who are petty and jealous but they are that way even if they are just ASSUMING about your situation without you saying a word.

[disneysteve]

Smallsteps, your post is excellent! Yes, being more open about money doesn't mean I'd go around telling everyone I meet how much I make or how much we have in the bank. It just means that talking about money and finances in general wouldn't be taboo the way it is now. And you are so right, as we've seen right here on these forums, that it isn't about rich or poor. Plenty of people who make a ton of money are lousy at managing it and need a lot of help.

What I often find ironic is how many people will hang on every word from a "guru" like Dave Ramsey or Suze Orman but pay no attention or even get offended if they get the very same advice from a friend or family member. And I don't mean that in any way against Dave or Suze. I think they both give great advice. But most of what they teach is very basic common sense money management skills. They've somehow managed to package their advice in a way that got them mass appeal, but many of us here give the same advice day after day on these threads. How many people in our own lives could benefit from the sorts of conversations we have here all the time?