Should federal workers strike ?

[Scallywag]

Moderators, please delete this thread if this is not an appropriate topic to discuss here.
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The following is a letter written by two anonymous federal workers urging all other feds to "strike" to end the shutdown.

https://splinternews.com/we-work-for...tri-1831879716

This worries me -- not because I am unsympathetic to them -- but because this will affect the American people as a whole, esp people with disabilities like my son who receive services administered by the federal government. These two want regular Americans - who have already paid the feds' wages (in the form of taxes) - to "feel the effects" so that the "collective outcry" will force Congress to move pass the impasse. I find that it is monstrous and utterly unconscionable to visit this on the public (who are mostly in agreement with them) just to coerce a resolution, putting vulnerable Americans like my son at risk, because - allegedly - that's the "only way" Congress will "get it's act together".

Here is their belief:

"A noticeable slowdown, if not an outright stop, of commerce, transit, logistics and production will bring this outrage against our nation to an end."

Not to mention, will create hardship and duress to millions of Americans who have done nothing wrong to deserve this.

There is another article also calling for a strike :

https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/lette...deral-workers/

"Yeah, you, too, at the IRS and the FAA. Get all those planes on the ground and go home, similar to 9/11. Build your own wall and demand the attention of all Americans to unite behind this defiant demonstration."

Yet another:

https://thehill.com/opinion/immigration/426260-give-federal-workers-a-voice-to-break-the-impasse

"Obviously, the country would come to halt; airplanes couldn’t fly; borders would go unprotected; Social Security claims and checks would be delayed; the president and members of Congress would have to carry their own lunch to work, etc. Just imagine a day without the federal workforce on the job."


I have no opinion on the border / wall crisis and don't want to go there. But this article urging that the feds exercise their "power" to teach Congress a lesson by holding the public as hostages has made me lose some empathy for these guys.

</end rant>

[prosper]

1) History has proven that it usually takes extreme measures to bring about major change.
2) Would your opinion change if you were directly affected?
3) The people in office are the people who we voted for.

Whatever has happened or will happen is partially the voter's fault. I believe our overall lack of respect for public servants has created our current environment. Our politicians are a direct reflection of us. You should be able to disagree and simultaneously show respect.

[Scallywag]

1) History has proven that it usually takes extreme measures to bring about major change.
2) Would your opinion change if you were directly affected?
3) The people in office are the people who we voted for.

Whatever has happened or will happen is partially the voter's fault. I believe our overall lack of respect for public servants has created our current environment. Our politicians are a direct reflection of us. You should be able to disagree and simultaneously show respect.

1. My opinion is that I am a parent to a significantly disabled child and my son should not be held hostage because public employees are in dispute with their employer. As a tax payer I have already paid the feds' wages through my taxes.

2. The problem is not just a Republican president but also the Democrat opposition. Neither appears to care about the American people, especially the most vulnerable among us.

3. Suggesting that they hold the elderly, the disabled and the poor hostage to teach their deadbeat employer a lesson does not exactly earn them my respect. If Uncle Sam isn't paying your wages that's between you and Uncle Sam. What does my son have to do with this ?

[kork13]

It's a sticky issue. Most notably, many federal employees (those termed as "federal officers") are barred by law from unionizing. Those that are unionized, are specifically barred by law (the Federal Service Labor-Management Relations Statute) from participating, inviting, or encouraging a labor strike that interrupts the operation of a federal agency, because doing so is considered contrary to the public interest. So yes, those two presumed federal employees are smart to stay anonymous, because they would absolutely lose their jobs if they are identified.

The thing that many people don't get (or perhaps just not buy into) is the fact that federal employees are "public servants" -- we serve on behalf of the public. If you don't like it, the door is that way. Maybe my perspective is biased as a military member, but in my view, it's little different. They take effectively the same oath of service that I do. Federal service has alot of benefits, but it comes at a cost. You give up certain rights & choices & opportunities.

Yes, individuals have the right to call in and take their sick days, or take their vacation days, or whatever else. But when they run out of the time that they've accumulated, they need to show up to work, or quit. As I said elsewhere, I've had my pay interrupted by shutdowns 2 or 3 times, included once while I was deployed to the mid-east & flying in combat. If anyone tried to "strike" or do anything of the like, I'd immediately initiate severe disciplinary action. We're all public servants, accountable to the public, and anything that runs against the public interest is unacceptable. Military member, IRS agent, or FAA controller, it's all the same.

ETA: Now that I think of it, we actually did have one precious little snowflake (while I was deployed) who tried to refuse to fly because we weren't being paid. He was charged with "Failure to Go" under Article 86 of the UCMJ, and was rather speedily kicked out of the military. Kinda warms your heart a little bit, doesn't it? Good riddance to foul rubbish. I'm not one to tolerate it.

[disneysteve]

I'm okay with this thread existing ONLY IF it isn't political. That means just addressing the question: Should Federal workers be able to strike? Please don't post about who is responsible for the shutdown or who is at fault for it continuing. If that's where this goes, the thread will be closed.

I don't think Federal workers should be able to strike. Honestly, I don't think any workers should be able to strike. If you aren't happy with the conditions at your job, take action. Meet with management. Negotiate changes. If that isn't working, find a new job.

That said, I also don't think anyone should be expected or required to work without pay. That wasn't the deal when you were hired. Nobody said, "Come work for us and we'll pay you every 2 weeks... unless we decide not to."

Virtually every single one of us is being impacted by the shutdown in one way or another, some more than others obviously. Companies big and small are affected and individuals are affected.

[Scallywag]

I understand their hardship and I absolutely feel that they should not have to suffer because Congress can't get it's act together and resolve this like grown adults should.

However, how dare they suggest that stopping social security checks or stopping food stamps or stopping special education services would "resolve this in a heartbeat" ? We paid our taxes and you want to victimize us because your employer is acting like a bum ?? The feds' lack of respect for the common American might be why they believe that we don't respect them -- it's called "projection" in Psychology.

[corn18]

Is this an arm waving exercise or has this already happened?

[Scallywag]

What's an arm waving exercise ?

They're threatening to strike, and claim that this shutdown will be solved in a "heartbeat" if housing vouchers, SS checks (including SSDI), SNAP, special eucation, Medicare and Medicaid are targeted.

Basically, their plan is to take the most vulnerable Americans hostage so that Uncle Sam won't be a "deadbeat no more".

[creditcardfree]

No the Federal workers should not strike and legally most of them cannot. However the American public should be up in arms, marching in the streets because our politicians can't come to the table and negotiate. They absolutely are not working together and this has been a complaint from both sides for a very long time now. I pray this ends very soon for all involved and that both parties can get something they want out of this deal, if only to save face (as that's what this is really about).

[disneysteve]

What do you all think about Federal workers having to work without pay? Yes, I realize they will eventually get their back pay, but that doesn't pay their bills today. If somebody can go out and find work that will actually pay them until the shutdown ends, I think they should be able to do what they need to do to support themselves and their families. Sure, they should have an EF, but we all know that most don't. And even if they had modest savings, they've probably burned through it already. Either pay them or give them the freedom to seek out an alternative source of income until you are ready to start paying them again.

[~bs]

some fun facts - striking wasn't always "legal". Much of the workplace rights we enjoy today are a result of workers striking over better working conditions, much of the time illegally, many times resulting in violence or arrests.

that being said, can the federal workers all strike? Yes. Is it "legal"? no. Will the federal government likely just fire everyone and replace them with new workers? Yes. The only chance of real success is with high participation numbers and public sympathy. People can sympathize with TSA agents calling in sick, showing up to work with pay deferred, etc. But if they all go on strike, leading to stalling the entire airlines industry, do you think people are going to sympathize or be very very pissed they're missing their flights because airport rentacops are mad that their paychecks are delayed. The government would simply declare a disaster, fire them all, bring in national guard to temporarily handle the duties, and hire new tsa agents.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...-5-1981-241252

long story short - federal workers are going to get paid and public sympathy, they have little to gain but much to lose by directly endangering public safety.

[Thrif-t]

What's an arm waving exercise ?

They're threatening to strike, and claim that this shutdown will be solved in a "heartbeat" if housing vouchers, SS checks (including SSDI), SNAP, special eucation, Medicare and Medicaid are targeted.

Basically, their plan is to take the most vulnerable Americans hostage so that Uncle Sam won't be a "deadbeat no more".

You've changed my mind looking at it from your view point! Honestly I was of the thought that yes they should SHUT IT ALL DOWN so there would be pain and people complaining so the two sides would come together and do their jobs, otherwise, what do they care? They don't, each side is just busy blaming the other side and dividing the country up more taking sides.

But you're right, it's our most vulnerable who will really be hurt. That's why I appreciate message boards and people being able to share their viewpoints, because we can learn from each other. We only know what we're familiar with, and honestly in real life I'm not familiar with anyone who would be hurt by benefits being withheld.

And I agree with DisneySteve, I don't think it's right that the employees are being made to work without pay. Now in the beginning I was ok with it because people do need to have some personal responsibility to have a rainy day fund to take care of themselves, but come on, this just can't keep going on for months and months!

But I also don't think they should be able to strike either. Yes they are going without pay but as someone said upthread they are public servants. I shouldn't mention their benefits, because honestly again, I don't know anyone who actually works for the Federal Govt, but my DH works for a county gov't and what he lacks in pay, he more than makes up for in benefits!

Geez I'm just all over the place,aren't I.

[Scallywag]

No, you're not.

I am not entirely unsympathetic to the feds. I absolutely feel that forcing people to work without pay is the very definition of slavery and this is the 21st century.

However, as a tax paying American, my perspective is that I have already paid the Feds via taxes. I've paid for my son's services, I am paying for some of my poor neighbors to be able to stay in their homes and get access to food, I am paying for the elderly in my community to have access to medical care in their senior care and I've paid for my taxes to be processed on time. I've paid and paid and paid and now they want to target me and my fellow Americans because ... ??

I hope Uncle Sam fires the lot of them if they strike and rehires workers who take their oaths to serve the people seriously. We are their bosses and I agree that Uncle Sam is acting as a bad steward of our money right now but we the people did not sign up to be held hostage by the Feds.

What do you all think about Federal workers having to work without pay? Yes, I realize they will eventually get their back pay, but that doesn't pay their bills today. If somebody can go out and find work that will actually pay them until the shutdown ends, I think they should be able to do what they need to do to support themselves and their families. Sure, they should have an EF, but we all know that most don't. And even if they had modest savings, they've probably burned through it already. Either pay them or give them the freedom to seek out an alternative source of income until you are ready to start paying them again.

i think they should be paid, period. However, they shouldn't be allowed a second job because that takes them away from their first job, which is us.

That would also be double dipping and we've already paid them to work for us. Why should we pay them if they're going to skip out on us ? I want all of my federal and social security taxes back if they're going to go deadbeat on us.

[corn18]

That is arm waving.

[creditcardfree]

What do you all think about Federal workers having to work without pay? Yes, I realize they will eventually get their back pay, but that doesn't pay their bills today. If somebody can go out and find work that will actually pay them until the shutdown ends, I think they should be able to do what they need to do to support themselves and their families. Sure, they should have an EF, but we all know that most don't. And even if they had modest savings, they've probably burned through it already. Either pay them or give them the freedom to seek out an alternative source of income until you are ready to start paying them again.

The workers that are considered 'essential' are the ones still working. Some of these federal workers are furloughed. They are not working and will not get paid. TSA agents are clearly essential as are some coast guard members for example. Do you really expect that the government can hire trained TSA agents or coast guard at the last minute, particularly for no pay, or an unknown paydate?

It's a very, very bad position all members of the legislative and executive branch have put the federal workers in. This wouldn't even be a discussion if there were laws or incentives to pass appropriations bills on time.