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The Economics of a Second Relationship

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  • The Economics of a Second Relationship

    I will try to use lists so I can organize this question to you/seek advice as I know these things can be long and convoluted. I guess this is targeted at people who have had a second relationship and made it work but also anyone can participate of course.

    First of all, my background: 46 y.o. male, 3 kids, actively co-parenting, 17, 12, and 6 (all boys), living in a 4 bdr. house with 1.5 bath. It's run down as you have seen my kitchen on other threads. I will admit it (but it's actually still a cool house in many ways - put together well, even if quirky) I have been involved with a woman 41 y.o., caring, loving, but full of drama, 3 kids, 19, still lives with her, 14 and 5. Her ex-husband is a drunk bipolar loser who barely co-parents. She left a house underwater and declared bankruptcy a year ago.

    We can't seem to agree on how to take any next step together.

    A. Her father set her up in a 2 bdr townhouse with a finished basement she sleeps in. Her house is too tiny to fit my kids in for any kind of meaningful visitation. He has pledged to give her the equity/house when it's paid off but that seems to be many years away. Maybe, MAYBE she/he have 10K in equity in it.

    B. I have a 4 bdr. 1.5 ba but it's kind of a dump. You have seen pics of my kitchen. She says she couldn't live here. I have offered for her to transfer the equity into my place via a lien to protect her and her father was open to that suggestion but she doesn't like my place. I get it. She would have never picked it out. She has good taste, lol.

    C. She says we should go out and buy our own place. It's what couples in second relationships do.

    1. I am not sure could do that.
    2. I am pretty sure I don't want to do that. I have 10 years left on my mortage and this dump is all mine. All mine. I get depressed thinking about financing another white picket fence for 20, 30 years.

    Now, don't get me wrong, if she had let's say 50K of equity and I have about 75K and we went out together, solidified by a ring, and got a 200K house, I would consider that. But she has nothing. Brings nothing to the table. And don't forget, I pay child support, which is very hard.

    She accuses me of looking at things too much like a business proposition with matters of the heart, which I may say is true but I guess I feel like I have 3 kids I have to provide for, sayeth the State of NJ, along with society. If something goes wrong, what am I supposed to do? It seems she has everything to gain and nothing to lose.

    So my question: My final counterproposal is for us to just rent a place but I think she will turn that down because she has a sweet deal with Section Papa Housing. She pays $600/month to him and he foots every other bill. Yeah, I get it - why walk away from that unless another Daddy can offer more, right?

    Should I move on? How have you made it work?

  • #2
    I don't think any of us can tell you what house to buy or where to move.

    The simple answer is, you have to compromise. Her place won't work for you, your place won't work for her. If there's value in pursuing life together, then you need to look at other options for your housing situation, together. If that's a sticking point, then it probably wasn't meant to be, or you're unwilling to put forth the kind of effort and change required in starting life over with someone new (as is she).

    You won't know if she's willing to rent a place together unless you ask. Maybe you present it as an interim solution while you look for a permanent place.
    History will judge the complicit.

    Comment


    • #3
      The story of my life.

      In my case I called it off with her, and moved on making decisions on my own is better for me right now.

      Here are some options...

      1) She should RENT her townhouse out
      2) You should RENT your house out
      3) you should buy together a new place

      if the relationship ends you will each have the equity in the place which is yours.
      If the relationship succeeds you won't care about money


      Here is what I am doing:
      1) I called it off with that woman about 14 months ago. She is already married, so I dodged a bullet big time.

      2) I am downsizing the house I own free and clear and will be buying a small condo to live in with my kids, and buying 1-2 other units I can rent. The idea is if I can rent out the 2-4 properties I own, I know I can move in with anyone if the situation presented itself.

      3) At same time, I am taking actions to improve my financial standing and make sure my income is solid, consistent, and my net worth always moves in a positive direction.

      Comment


      • #4
        Yeah, she says her father doesn't want to be in the business of renting a property out. And I kind of get that. He wants to be taking cruises and playing cards at this juncture of his life.

        What about pre-nups? What are your feelings on that? Look. . .my feelings. . .they aren't forever, just a prescribed time. And I think they can be an aid, instead of a source of angst, like at least laying out a plan for success/wealth accumulation. It seems that most people focus on the Exit Clause though. . .

        I dunno. . .maybe I have been in business too long. Maybe I am too old too, in that female genitalia doesn't have the sway over me it did when I was 23.

        Comment


        • #5
          I am dealing with something similar.

          The girlfriend rents, but is underwater. Her parents give her financial support. She wants to buy a place together. I came close, but thought better of it. I'd buy a place, but it would be in my name until we got married. I don't want her on the deed if we are only dating.

          Like you, she brings nothing to the table. I have ALL the money for the downpayment. She makes good money, but can't manage it. IF I could get her straightened out financially I'd feel a lot better. I'm working on that now. She is kicking and screaming the entire way. She is very materialistic, superficial, etc. She sees no need to save or be reasonable with living. I certainly won't even consider buying anything with her or marrying her until we can meet on common ground.

          So, for now we date. I see her a few days a week. I'm not doing anything until I see if she can get herself out of debt and start taking control of her finances. I love her, but I've worked too hard to p*ss it all away on anyone. Harsh maybe. But, if I don't look out for myself no one else will for sure.
          Brian

          Comment


          • #6
            BJ,

            Yeah, that's another thing. . .she wants everything to be in "both names."

            I'm telling you. . .I used to think Dowries were a backwards practice. . .now I am starting to get it. I entirely get it.

            In one classic fight, I said, "Oh I see, let's see what I get out of this. I give away half my house, father another man's kids 95% of the time, probably push my kids to the side no matter what we do, and get a 20-30 year mortgage on my back.

            This is every guy's dream.

            It's what I hope for for my boys and I am sure that's what they dream of."

            That went over well. Yeah, that was a 4 month "hiatus" in the relationship.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by bjl584 View Post
              I am dealing with something similar.

              The girlfriend rents, but is underwater. Her parents give her financial support. She wants to buy a place together. I came close, but thought better of it. I'd buy a place, but it would be in my name until we got married. I don't want her on the deed if we are only dating.

              Like you, she brings nothing to the table. I have ALL the money for the downpayment. She makes good money, but can't manage it. IF I could get her straightened out financially I'd feel a lot better. I'm working on that now. She is kicking and screaming the entire way. She is very materialistic, superficial, etc. She sees no need to save or be reasonable with living. I certainly won't even consider buying anything with her or marrying her until we can meet on common ground.

              So, for now we date. I see her a few days a week. I'm not doing anything until I see if she can get herself out of debt and start taking control of her finances. I love her, but I've worked too hard to p*ss it all away on anyone. Harsh maybe. But, if I don't look out for myself no one else will for sure.
              Separate finances from the relationship.

              Sure no one wants to get burned financially from anyone (at any time). However look at how that comment makes the other person feel- it might make you look controlling, it might make you look like you are trying to buy the other person.

              Money injects feelings. If you use money to control, the relationship will likely fail. If you want to build something with someone, who cares about how much each person brings to table. If you don't want to build something with someone, stop living with someone for sex, cut them loose, and find what you are looking for.

              I'm looking in the mirror on the last paragraph, YMMV
              Last edited by jIM_Ohio; 03-26-2015, 10:05 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                BJ,

                Want a roommate?

                LOL. . .I think I'd seriously just like to room with another divorced male. . .opposite sides of the house for when we have chicks over. Split a cleaning service.

                I love women, for the color they bring to life, but honestly, not to sound like a misogynist, I don't find their viewpoints on life or the way they tackle or solve (or avoid) problems very sensible. LIke someone said, "You gotta compromise." Um so that means if I have a $1,000,000 and she has $0, she gets 500K?

                Maybe I should be looking for a woman with 1,000,000, lol. And that's the rub. . .I was dating a millionaire before her and I never, NEVER thought about her signing over half her house to me. (if we made it to that point) Never occurred to me to present that kind of a lopsided proposal. We just couldn't click sexually so that's why we moved on (and are great friends to this day).

                There's a whole book on this subject - MEN ON STRIKE, written by a woman, about how men are in alarming numbers opting out of marriage and fatherhood. I hate to think of it as "on strike" but yeah, I may be opting out here.

                Well, thanks for listening.

                Comment


                • #9
                  If you want to build something with someone, who cares about how much each person brings to table
                  Yeah, but JimOhio,

                  BJ's squeeze doesn't want to build anything it sounds like. She just wants to take and seize.

                  And yeah, if my squeeze came to me saying, "You know. . .I'd like to build this. I have these goals. Nothing to offer but here's where I hope to be."

                  Yeah, that would mean something. But she has just said, "I don't think about those things. I just assume my kids will take care of me when I am older." (and SSI)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Scanner View Post
                    Yeah, but JimOhio,

                    BJ's squeeze doesn't want to build anything it sounds like. She just wants to take and seize.

                    And yeah, if my squeeze came to me saying, "You know. . .I'd like to build this. I have these goals. Nothing to offer but here's where I hope to be."

                    Yeah, that would mean something. But she has just said, "I don't think about those things. I just assume my kids will take care of me when I am older." (and SSI)
                    I have dated enough the last 2 years I believe I figured out what "type" of person I am looking for.

                    My Meyers Briggs is ENTP
                    most of the people I find compatibility with in life direction have the N with Meyers Briggs- Accounts, Nurses and a few other professions need it, and I've met several amazing women which fit this description.

                    The Women I've met which are _SF_ such as ESFJ or ISFP are way too materialistic, superficial, not problem solvers and they create "drama" because I don't make decisions with feeling or care how I make them feel.

                    You should also NOT be a in a relationship if you are "waiting for someone to change". If you expect her to change, she should expect you to change too- are you going to change her financial habits? What makes you think YOU are right and SHE needs to change?

                    I'd suggest politely letting the girl go, you are not helping either of you waiting for her to change.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Run, don't walk!

                      This was my last relationship only Im the female and I had all of the money, motivation and goals. After a six month bout of him being unemployed and not even trying to find work or do well in college. I finally called it quits.

                      She will drain you of everything she can get. Find someone who is your equal. I am insanely happy in my current relationship and we are equals in many things including finances, goals, hard work etc

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Scanner View Post
                        Yeah, but JimOhio,

                        BJ's squeeze doesn't want to build anything it sounds like. She just wants to take and seize.

                        And yeah, if my squeeze came to me saying, "You know. . .I'd like to build this. I have these goals. Nothing to offer but here's where I hope to be."

                        Yeah, that would mean something. But she has just said, "I don't think about those things. I just assume my kids will take care of me when I am older." (and SSI)
                        Well, she's trying to build something. At least I think. I'm just being cautious till I know for sure. She is working on her finances, reluctantly, but she is. That's a good sign I think.

                        I'm in a wait and see approach.

                        And where do you live? I might consider a room mate. LOL
                        Brian

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Scanner View Post
                          What about pre-nups? What are your feelings on that?
                          I have already told my husband that if I die and he remarries he absolutely MUST get a pre-nup.
                          If my husband were to die (God forbid) I can't envision ever remarrying, but if for some reason I did I would absolutely get a pre-nup! If the other person did not agree I would walk.

                          And we don't even have children. If we had children it would be that much more vital.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            OP, money is a big issue in relationships. I'd actually get counseling on this issue before moving forward to marriage or combining households and making financial decisions. You aren't on the same page and that is where couples need to be to make it work. If the counseling doesn't work or she won't go then I'm afraid it is time to move on.
                            My other blog is Your Organized Friend.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Guys, the research describes 2nd marriages as 'Perilous,' there are added unique challenges that results in a 60% divorce rate. A lot revolves around children/step children communications. The 50% divorce rate of 1st marriages identifies finance/money management disagreements often plays a large role. The figures also show that 50% of cohabiting couples remain unmarried.

                              I wondered if couples who plan 2nd marriages go to marriage classes.

                              Comment

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