Tithing, Giving, Charity while in Debt & Dave Ramsey

**disneysteve** · 05-06-2014, 09:56 AM

First, let's be clear that this is NOT a financial topic. It is a religious topic.

Personally, I think you need to take care of yourself and your family first and foremost. Only when you are in a stable position can you really consider helping others.

I do think you need to separate tithing from other charity, though. There is a big difference between giving away 10% of your income and, perhaps, buying a $1 raffle ticket for your kid's school fundraiser or purchasing a roll of wrapping paper.

I realize others will disagree, and that's fine, but you asked my opinion so there it is.

**asmom** · 05-06-2014, 01:35 PM

What Steve said.

**Eagle** · 05-06-2014, 06:31 PM

Originally posted by disneysteve View Post

First, let's be clear that this is NOT a financial topic. It is a religious topic.

Personally, I think you need to take care of yourself and your family first and foremost. Only when you are in a stable position can you really consider helping others.

I do think you need to separate tithing from other charity, though. There is a big difference between giving away 10% of your income and, perhaps, buying a $1 raffle ticket for your kid's school fundraiser or purchasing a roll of wrapping paper.

I realize others will disagree, and that's fine, but you asked my opinion so there it is.

Very well put. I would say it is both a financial topic and a religious topic.

I guess I just get frustrated when people like Dave tell others they have to tithe 10% while they can't pay their bills.

**bennkar** · 05-06-2014, 06:41 PM

Well you could ask your friends for money and then tithe that. OK, I know that sounds stupid, but I have had that happen. Years ago a person asked me for $20 to pay bills, then I saw her at church an hour later tithing that $20

. Oh yeah, be charitable with other's money. Grrrrr......

**Carol33** · 05-06-2014, 10:47 PM

God knows whats in our hearts so if we cannot really afford to give, I think that was just okay. God for sure would not want us to suffer together with our families just to give something.
Also if I can remember it right. In the Bible, the rich gives lots of golds but only to brag about it so God was not pleased. It was not just giving, it is the purpose of it.

**Eagle** · 05-07-2014, 04:19 AM

Originally posted by bennyhoff View Post

Well you could ask your friends for money and then tithe that. OK, I know that sounds stupid, but I have had that happen. Years ago a person asked me for $20 to pay bills, then I saw her at church an hour later tithing that $20

. Oh yeah, be charitable with other's money. Grrrrr......

Wow that is frustrating. If you are in serious debt and can't pay your creditors but you give to charity isn't that being charitable with other's money?

**disneysteve** · 05-07-2014, 04:44 AM

Originally posted by Eagle View Post

Wow that is frustrating. If you are in serious debt and can't pay your creditors but you give to charity isn't that being charitable with other's money?

Interesting question. I suppose you could say that as long as you are current on your debt payments, even if you are only making the minimum payments each month, what you do with the money you have is your own business. The creditor is happy and you are complying with the loan agreement. It might not be smart to give money away rather than paying your own bills but it isn't illegal or immoral.

If, however, you are behind on payments, I think that's a different story. At that point, I think you need to be on an extreme bare bones plan where you don't spend a penny unnecessarily and do everything you can to uphold your end of the loan deals.

**kyrie** · 05-07-2014, 05:27 AM

I guess that's why He says not to go into debt in the first place. ;-)
(and yes, I realize that's a very simplistic answer for our culture but really, wouldn't you agree?)

**feh** · 05-07-2014, 05:33 AM

As an agnostic, this is a non-issue for me.

I've never had problems with debt, and I've been employed my entire adult life, so I can't speak from experience, but if I did have lack of income or crushing debt, charitable giving would be one of the first cuts in spending I would make.

**disneysteve** · 05-07-2014, 05:58 AM

The bottom line, regardless of your religious views, is that the longer you keep giving money away, the longer it is going to take to get out of debt.

So it becomes a matter of priorities. If your goal is to stay in debt as long as possible, tithing will certainly help keep you in debt longer. If, however, your goal is to clean up the mess and get out of debt, cutting out unnecessary spending is the way to go.

But again, the people who tithe don't do it because it makes financial sense. They do it because they have a religious belief that it is what they are supposed to be doing.

**ua_guy** · 05-07-2014, 05:58 AM

I'll leave my religious thoughts at the door. From a financial perspective, no, I do not believe one should tithe when they are in debt.

I believe in self-sufficiency in times of need and that requires taking care of oneself and immediate dependents before giving cash to others. Give time, labor, skill, give emotional support, but not cash.

**Weird Tolkienish Figure** · 05-07-2014, 06:27 AM

Originally posted by Eagle View Post

1. Tithing, Giving, and Charity while in debt. It's a sticky subject regardless of your faith. What do you think of tithing, giving, or charity while in debt?

2. So I know Dave Ramsey is a popular figure in the personal finance world. Dave recommend tithing while in debt. What do you think?

Here's what Dave says on his website:

I personally find it hard to give unless I can see it making a difference with my own eyes. I will pay for exchange for some soft of services, for example I go to church once a year at Christmas and don't mind giving then.

I just feel that with a lot of charities, there is so much administrative overhead that you're making the wrong people wealthier (the fat cats at the head of charity) and very little of your money is reaching those who really need it.

Am I off base?

**ua_guy** · 05-07-2014, 06:40 AM

Originally posted by Weird Tolkienish Figure View Post

I personally find it hard to give unless I can see it making a difference with my own eyes. I will pay for exchange for some soft of services, for example I go to church once a year at Christmas and don't mind giving then.

I just feel that with a lot of charities, there is so much administrative overhead that you're making the wrong people wealthier (the fat cats at the head of charity) and very little of your money is reaching those who really need it.

Am I off base?

I don't think you're off base. A lot of charities exist as administrative middle-men. Some are better than others, contributing a majority of proceeds to actual charitable work and causes. Some truly are "scams" where such a little percentage of proceeds are actually given away to charitable causes that they shouldn't have any tax-exempt status at all. Not to knock all charities. There are some really good ones out there, and the overall value of giving is determined by the person making contributions.

Also, with regards to churches specifically, the existence of mega-churches run for profit really are an interesting tangle of faith and profiteering.

**kyrie** · 05-07-2014, 07:16 AM

There is a difference between giving to charity, tithing (or giving offerings) and "Exchange of services". Going to church and *being a part of the Church*, etc. is not an exchange of service (we'll never pay in enough if that were the case!). We give because God gives to us. It is good for us to give. It is good for us to plan, put first things *first* and think about what it all means and what we are doing, yes?
That's the point.

Tithing, Giving, Charity while in Debt & Dave Ramsey