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  • reasonable plan?

    So we've been talking more about the future and ER is not going to happen because my DH won't have it happen. But we are going to take a leap in two years and move without a job no matter what. We are shaking the dirt off our feet and just leave.

    One next year my DH gets a month sabbatical so we are going to try and live somewhere for a month and get job interviews. If we get a job offer we move sooner. If not we move summer 2016. Why? Our oldest will be done with kindergarten. I think it's a good time to move kids wise.

    Two my DH has acknowledge it's possible he's not going where he needs to be career wise and it's time for a change. 9 years and one promotion isn't exactly climbing the ladder. And while it's well paying job he loves his resume is weak, his words not mine. If he were to get laid off the chances of getting another job in the same field are slim. So we'd be stuck in a city we don't love with potentially more bills than we'd like.

    He's decided a career change is probably in order and doing something in business just means more flexibility location job wise and just getting another job. He's always assumed he'll make less money (not necessarily true) and work more hours (again not necessarily true). I may be wrong and people on this board might chime in but how much of a salary increase/promotions during 9 years do most people consider reasonable? He was told a newly minted MBA from the school he graduated from made 70-80k starting out. Now if they worked for 9 years he argues they would be lucky to be making $100k is that reasonable? Would a 30% increase over 10 years be logical? Also he doesn't think he's very marketable and has very low opinion that his previous work experience will count. Again please chime in.

    But we were recently approached with a house purchase offer and so we started to look at SFH where we are. Honestly we can't really buy anything we would want for $900k at the top end of our budget. We went to see a house this weekend that was listed for $749k 3bd/3ba 1700 sq ft on 3400 sq ft lot. Bidding war and likely to go for $825k. It just got put on market on Tuesday and had an offer that day, but the owners wanted more so they refused the offer and said they were waiting until 12 noon on Monday after the open houses. Before the open houses they have 3 home inspections and 2 written offers.

    Since this is our second weekend of open houses I was willing to concede about not moving out of city but my DH had a strong dose of what we could really afford. And the truth is we'd have to move a lot further out and a lot longer of a commute than 30 minutes (current) to buy a house.

    The reality is that our family life will suffer to get a home we want in this city either stress from overbuying or commuting 1-2 hours each way. If we lose a job we could easily face losing our home. So my pointing out that a cheaper COLA "early" retirement is the way to might make sense.

    I'm no longer saying ER, rather I'm saying we can take jobs paying as little as $60k/year to survive, what our current burn rate is without savings. However that includes $2500/month on PITI, and the cost of living in general where we are is so high that our $2500/month living expenses might be $2k elsewhere.

    And the reality that our current townhouse is being offered for $750k is a little absurb. That we potentially could buy a home cash with the equity from our house. That would mean what we really need to make to live is half of what we do now.

    Yes we wouldn't be saving for retirement or college if we make $60k, but I'm banking that we may not need to save more for retirement that what we have since I project we'll have $600k for retirement in 2 years and we don't touch another 25 years. And in theory we could save for retirement if we didn't have a mortgage payment but diverted the $2500/month to savings?
    LivingAlmostLarge Blog

  • #2
    LAL, Glad to hear that you and your husband are communicating and working on a plan that you can both be on board with.

    If you were to sell your townhouse now, after all fees (including real estate commission and sales tax if any) are paid, how much would you expect to have left over in your pocket?

    What is the total of: monthly interest earned at 1% on the money you would walk away with from sale of house PLUS current mortgage payment MINUS any increase in taxes due to loss of home mortgage deduction?

    Could you rent a minimally-acceptable apartment for LESS than the amount you come up with doing the above calculation?* (I say less because you may end up with lease breaking fees, paying overlapping rent & mortgage when you buy again, etc.) If so, then selling now and renting might be a good option, since it would give you more flexibility to move when a good job opportunity is found.

    A nice thing about "temporary situations" (renting for 1-2 years) is that you can gladly make due with much less than you might in a permanent situation knowing that it is only for a short period of time. For example, if your children won't be attending school in the area where you rent, then the quality of schools does not matter at all.

    *This isn't a perfect formula because you will pay for different things or at a different rate as a renter. For example, when my husband & I moved to Texas and were renting before buying our house, our complex required a cable package w/ premium channels for all units (now we don't have cable) and the A/C unit was extremely inefficient so our electric bill was higher in a small apartment than it is in our much bigger house, but on the other hand we didn't have to pay for trash or buy materials for yard or house maintenance.

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    • #3
      Taking time to make deliberate changes like this which affect a whole family is a good move.

      You have a "plan", and realize there are probably 100 variables you have not accounted for which will change the plan and it won't turn out the way you want. The key is to take action, and communicate at every step of the way.

      Here are a few suggestions:
      1) Make sure he has a linked in account. I do all my job searching on linked in, and he may be able to find some recruiters which can talk to him.
      2) Most jobs are achieved through networking, not by submitting resumes. Does he know anyone at a competitor? That would be what linked in will help you find.
      3) Job searches like this will take more than a month, and be a lot of work. I can outline how I have done my last two, and I am getting really good at this. I can also give you the name of a person which has a job search guide here, and she gives it out free of charge. She's a good friend, PM me and find me on linked in, and I can explain further.

      Edit, in 15 years as an engineer, I doubled my pay by year 14 and then I doubled my pay at year 17. However in my current position, some of that is variable, and at a larger company there would be 3-5 people which do my job.

      Reward comes with risk
      if you invest for a higher return, you know about those risks
      Jobs which pay more have more risk too, climbing corporate ladder vs working for a small business, vs working as a contributor with low stress should be discussion points.
      Last edited by jIM_Ohio; 04-14-2014, 08:44 AM.

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      • #4
        The fact that so many of your posts have money concerns, the subject appears to consume quite a bit of your thought, no? Please don't take this to mean you're struggling financially or are in debt.

        This quote from you "my DH has acknowledge it's possible he's not going where he needs to be career wise and it's time for a change" (emphasis mine) prompts me to ask: does your husband believe that climbing the corporate ladder and getting promotions is some sort of destiny he had envisioned for himself, and is he disillusioned that it has not come true?

        FWIW, I'm doing similar work as I was doing 8 years ago, and have received pay increases that come out to about a 35% jump in that period.

        If you move to a LCOLA area, your DH makes less, your expenses are less, and you don't have to deal with the HCOLA erratic housing mania...sounds like a win. The large retirement seed will continue to compound, and you can probably max out your retirement due to the fact that your equity will possibly enable you to pay cash for a house (no mortgage at age 40, how cool is that).

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        • #5
          Scfr $275-$300k. But we aren't ready to sell yet. Our mortgage is too cheap and it's expensive to rent right now. Not for what we are paying. Although that's why we suddenly are worried it's another bubble and wonder if we should try to cash out.

          Jim, will pm you. He does have a linked in account. This is a slow play for the future. This winter has solidified how I feel about where we are. We had a few incidents where I called DH and said to come home to help with the kids. It took awhile but he did. He resented it. But the truth is that we couldn't ask other parents to come watch sick kids and I was sick. And we didn't have help so he had to get home. And we had big fights over his keep working when I was throwing up and unable to walk and the kids hadn't been feed and dog walked by 10 am. So the nature of being all alone is hard and I think he's starting to get it. That I do have some expectations of help when usually I don't.

          JoeP, I think my DH always thought he'd be successful at what he does and moving up getting more responsibility and being in charge of his own projects. He envisioned more. Retirement has been maxed out that's always been our priority. I think he also ties worth to income and I'm not sure he's been on board before about a lower income. Do I believe he'll make $60k? No, but it may not be as much as he wants.
          LivingAlmostLarge Blog

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          • #6
            From a decision making standpoint, I would make sure you both agree on certain things:

            1) What is the family GOAL. There can be only one #1 goal, and all decisions feed into the #1 goal.

            For example is the goal to move up the corporate ladder
            Is the goal to retire early?
            Is the goal to live around friends and family.

            For example, if there is a reunion or something where you want to move, and he might meet some people which can help with a job search, that feeds into #1 goal, even if it gets in way of early retirement or not being with friends and family. If it supports the #1 goal, it is likely a very good decision.

            Only one of those is the goal, then shape decisions around everyone being happy with the top goal in mind. For example my goal is to support my kids, this means I compromise on retiring early, living in Cincinnati, and many other issues, because the goal is to be around my kids, even though I only see them 180 days per year. If you have a #1 goal and he has a different #1 goal, you will have fights and not be happy. You both need the same goal. Write it down. If its more than 2 sentences, the goal is not clearly defined enough. YOU BOTH NEED TO AGREE ON SAME GOAL

            2) From a career standpoint, there is another objective-
            What is the desire/ambition... because without the desire, people quit jobs or get laid off. This desire can be independent of goals-
            My objective is a job where I am technical and work with people. I have that and this makes me happy. By doing this I don't have to force myself into thinking I need to retire early, and I have enough flexibility at work to travel, take time off and do other things (like drink beer in our breakroom).

            IMO you have little say in what his career ambitions are. You have input into where you live, or similar, but if he says he wants to be a contributor for next 30 years, that is his decision. If he wants to climb corporate ladder, that is his decision. You would win the most points by supporting that and suggesting what else could be done to enhance this (for example getting private daycare as a backup for being a SAHM).

            3) I think you try to time decisions too perfectly. If you would make money selling house, they can take 1-2 years to sell. When I got divorced it took us 9+ months to sell, and we lost $120k on that transaction. Moving is stressful, changing jobs is stressful, is there a reason you want to do both in same 6 month period?

            You state "I think my DH always thought he'd be successful at what he does and moving up getting more responsibility and being in charge of his own projects. He envisioned more."

            I would actually ask him. Focus on him, not you, not the family, not any other issue. Because until you get to root of this, he likely won't interview well either. Lots of other issues feed into this, and the result generates a lot of other issues, but career achievement can be very taxing on a marriage.

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            • #7
              jIM_Ohio makes excellent points.

              OP said: "DH always thought he'd be successful at what he does and moving up getting more responsibility and being in charge of his own projects. He envisioned more. ... I think he also ties worth to income and I'm not sure he's been on board before about a lower income."

              These are huge items that really need to be vetted out. Does your DH consider himself unsuccessful because he hasn't moved up or been in charge of his own projects? Did he get a degree thinking he'd be sitting in Mahogany Row by now, and is disappointed that this hasn't come true? (News flash: this sometimes results in more time away from home.) Find out why he ties "worth" to income as opposed to how he provides for you and the kids. Does he feel like less of a father or husband if he falls short of goals he has set for himself, even if his current situation provides perfectly well?

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              • #8
                LAL I thought you were coming out here to Seattle. It is 71 degrees today and sunny!

                On the income increase thing...my wife started out making about 50K in 1992 right out of college and now makes a bit over 250K. Jobs pay better out here on the coast though.

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                • #9
                  Jim, hence why next year's sabbatical will be where we want to live. Goal is to retire securely, pay for college, be responsible, live comfortably, be happy at work. I asked him once when he'd retire he said when he hits SS age. He's honestly never expected to retire before then even at our current savings rate and frugal living. He's always a worrier and expect the worse kind of guy for finances. BUT positive for everything else. I do love that financial conservatism.

                  My suggestion has always been do what he loves. And I've supported him even through layoffs prekids. But I do deserve some return and why we are having a conversation. But he's also worried about moving further if we stay where we are and having 1-2 hour commute. It wouldn't be pretty. But we would really need to if we wanted a house for the kids.

                  JoeP I think he wants it all. Good job but time with kids. One way to get time with kids is to not commute 1 hour. BUT at the same time he isn't thrilled we share walls and when our neighbors call to complain about the noise from kids running around. It's a tough pill to swallow and know we make a very good income but are still living attached to people because the cost of living is so high that moving into our own house might be impossible where we are. I've said this has been my personal worry for a few years now.

                  My DH hasn't worried until the kids are getting bigger, we are in talks for a third, and we just need more space and privacy. He's realizing after talks with his childhood friend perhaps the answer isn't making more money where we are, yes we can make more money, but perhaps taking a paycut even by 25% and moving somewhere that the median home isn't $650k. That making less can lead to less stress.

                  He's always been a make more money kind of guy, rather than look at what about less money, more time or cheaper place.
                  LivingAlmostLarge Blog

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