Stupidity of people

[hamchan]

So what do you do when your family are all worse off than you? What if they are helping all they can but you still have to choose between feeding your kids and keeping the lights on?

[cardtrick]

So what do you do when your family are all worse off than you? What if they are helping all they can but you still have to choose between feeding your kids and keeping the lights on?

That's an unlikely scenario for me. Worst case, I've also got a couple of really close friends who would help out. I'm working on building up my assets so I don't have to worry about having to depend on others, ever.

I would never have kids unless I'm really sure that I'd be able to provide for them.

Note that I'm not against welfare. I'm lucky to have been born into a privileged life. Not many people get lucky like that. Had I been born in the projects somewhere, all I would have known was drugs and a life of crime. I recognize that there are a lot of people out there who genuinely need help. My values would just not allow me to take help from the government. My dad was abandoned by his single mom when he was 15. He put himself through college with no help from family or the government when unemployment rates were about 30% (we're from a different part of the world where the government doesn't help out in any way). Taking help from the government would be a huge step back for me.

[hamchan]

I don't see it as a moral failing to accept welfare if you need it because that is what it is intended for. Even one major medical event can easily wipe out a family's savings. If on top of that you are the only source of income for your family, and you aren't able to work for a while, that's really all it takes in your average blue collar working class family. I don't think that only the well off should be having kids. People are waiting too long to try to get pregnant as it is there days, and then they wind up blowing all the money they have saved on IVF treatments and/or adoption costs. But for most people earning an average or lower income, having a couple hundred thousand set aside before having kids isn't even an option.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I think the problem is it seems like everyone is having kids without considering if they really want to have kids with these people they have them with. Then move on to next person. Then get WIC or free medical while not working.

[debtfreeme]

There are many reasons why someone receives aid, accidental pregnancies CAN still happen even with birth control and if you haven't walked a mile in someone's shoes there are no comments to be made.

My sister receives aid because her ex husband fled the country and is not paying child support for their three children. The man inherited millions when his parents died in just the past couple of years. Without assistance, including from family, they would be living on the street.

Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone.

[cardtrick]

I don't see it as a moral failing to accept welfare if you need it because that is what it is intended for. Even one major medical event can easily wipe out a family's savings. If on top of that you are the only source of income for your family, and you aren't able to work for a while, that's really all it takes in your average blue collar working class family. I don't think that only the well off should be having kids. People are waiting too long to try to get pregnant as it is there days, and then they wind up blowing all the money they have saved on IVF treatments and/or adoption costs. But for most people earning an average or lower income, having a couple hundred thousand set aside before having kids isn't even an option.

It's not a moral failing. Those are just values I was raised with. Anything unexpected could happen no matter how much money someone has. But for me the government is the last place I would turn to, for help.

[hamchan]

Why would you assume that it isn't also a last resort for those who accept it? They may just have fewer resources to pull from in the first place.

[Gailete]

I think the problem is it seems like everyone is having kids without considering if they really want to have kids with these people they have them with

There are many reasons why someone receives aid, accidental pregnancies CAN still happen even with birth control and if you haven't walked a mile in someone's shoes there are no comments to be made.

I think we HAVE all walked in those same shoes. Some of us made decisions to not have sex before marriage so that we didn't end up with kids from multiple dads none of which supported their kids. As the one poster said, many don't consider what their one action can produce. All media seems to show that you can meet a person and hop in bed with them 3 hours later with no consequences. But there are, besides the risk of unplanned pregnancies, there are also the risk of diseases as well, and the emotional turmoil of giving yourself to someone that never speaks to you or sees you again.

I certainly know how marriages can fail and if a family needs support from the government due to that then that is what it is for. It is not for 16 year old girls dating older married men (statutory rape by the way) getting pregnant and aborting the baby and then since her parents didn't see the need to lock her up or get her on birth control or get the guy arrested she yet again gets pregnant and decides she will keep the baby since "all the N****** do it why can't I?" Direct quote from an actual incident at a job I once worked at. No the government should step in in another way. Arrest the guy, and garnish his wages for life to help support the child and the parents who didn't seem to care what their child was doing needed to be helping support their daughter and child as well.

As I mentioned we have all had to make hard choices about what we will do with our lives and how we will live them. If we go about life with our backup plan always being government assistance then it is time to rethink our lifestyles. I think that is what most of us object to. Those that don't ever think about doing for themselves, not people that through no fault of their own got caught up in financial problems and temporarily need help. It isn't and shouldn't be there for generation after generation of families. And as much as some of you seem to think that most people use it only as a temporary stopgap measure, that isn't what is really happening with most people. For them it is a way of life and each extra baby adds to their income and excuse for why they can't go out to work, although a lot of us not on welfare had to leave new babies to work.

[hamchan]

I have actually done a lot of research about the issue of welfare because it is a subject very close to me. Many of the assumptions being thrown around about welfare users are factually incorrect.

The average welfare family has the same number of children as the average family nationally. Half of all people who receive TANF are off in less than 4 months, and 3/4 are off in under one year. The number of those that reach the lifetime limit of five years is very small. 90% of entitlement benefits go to the elderly, the disabled, and working families. The number of families receiving cash assistance is at a historic low. Teenage unwed births has been on a steady decline for the last 20 years. The percentage of food stamp benefits being spent on junk food is less than 2.5%. I can keep going...

[hamchan]

Oh, and BTW Gailete, no one has gotten addition welfare money for additional children since the mid nineties. If you have a baby while on welfare your cash benefit will not increase.

Do a little research on what it takes to get and keep welfare benefits in your state. Look into just how poor you have to be to qualify, how much you might expect to receive, and what the requirements are for continuing to receive it. You might be surprised.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Actually in hawaii they do give you more money. This is fact and I know both people who do and my best friends mom works in the welfare office. It is just the fact that people don't consider what's best of the kids before popping them out.

[hamchan]

They get a little bit more money in Hawaii (also Alaska) because the cost of living is significantly higher. It's still not enough for a comfortable existence no matter how you slice it.

[YLTL_Dan]

The average welfare family has the same number of children as the average family nationally. Half of all people who receive TANF are off in less than 4 months, and 3/4 are off in under one year. The number of those that reach the lifetime limit of five years is very small. 90% of entitlement benefits go to the elderly, the disabled, and working families. The number of families receiving cash assistance is at a historic low. Teenage unwed births has been on a steady decline for the last 20 years. The percentage of food stamp benefits being spent on junk food is less than 2.5%. I can keep going...

Really interesting information, thanks for posting. Most people I know wouldn't choose to take the lifestyle that comes with needing welfare. As long as they aren't living a nicer life than the majority of others, I think we're doing ok.

[Gailete]

no one has gotten addition welfare money for additional children since the mid nineties. If you have a baby while on welfare your cash benefit will not increase.

While your cash benefit may not increase, many other programs for poor people, generally on welfare, are based on family size, age of children or other factors that help support the families such as food stamps, school lunches, heating assistance, Medicaid, rent, WIC, etc.

[hamchan]

While your cash benefit may not increase, many other programs for poor people, generally on welfare, are based on family size, age of children or other factors that help support the families such as food stamps, school lunches, heating assistance, Medicaid, rent, WIC, etc.

While that may be true, the data shows that people on welfare are not having more kids than the average American family, so it's kind of a moot point. Isn't it?