Bad Math

[Baby_nurse]

Forgive me for saying this, but what is it to you what they spend their money on? You might not agree with their choices because it doesn't fit with your values. But chances are, your priorities aren't the same as theirs.

Lord knows that my friends and I don't see eye to eye on everything.

IF her complaints bother you, change the subject. She's obviously not looking for you to solve her problems, but rather to vent.

[elessar78]

It's probably nothing to LAL. We all come here for entertainment and/or education. Sometimes you gotta just come and vent the ridiculousness of people and their money. I've tried to have similar discussions about money in my sports team's message board and people look at me like I have three heads for suggesting an emergency fund.

Stories like these are like cautionary tales. "Look, you're an idiot if . . ."

[elessar78]

Speaking of which, I have a high school friend who has had to declare bankruptcy 3 times! Yet everything on his Facebook suggests nothing has changed. Still buying designer eyeglasses and pounds of premium ground coffee, pictures of always being at some bar, then complains about how people stiff him his tips in his side gig as a waiter and how he can't make rent.

I consider him my friend but can't help but marvel at the mess he's made.

[scfr]

Your calculations regarding her day care costs are off (over-simplified).
Teachers don't work year-round, so she won't be paying as much extra as you stated.

There are other factors that could come in to play. I don't know if they do or not because I don't know this couple's entire financial situation (and neither do you). Things that they may have factored in that you may not know about are:

- Tax deduction for childcare costs?
- Tax savings for FSA or childcare reimbursement from employer?
- Her pension & other benefits (teachers get pretty good benefits ... they may be paying for things out of pocket now that they could get for free or reduced if she went back to work)?
- Projected lifetime earnings & career track (promotions) if she goes back to work now vs. not going back?

I don't know this couple, but it is possible they (well ... he) did some serious number crunching and came up with an accurate figure.

Things aren't always so black & white.

[Baby_nurse]

It's probably nothing to LAL. We all come here for entertainment and/or education. Sometimes you gotta just come and vent the ridiculousness of people and their money. I've tried to have similar discussions about money in my sports team's message board and people look at me like I have three heads for suggesting an emergency fund.

Stories like these are like cautionary tales. "Look, you're an idiot if . . ."

Probably true, but I was questioning it since LAL started a second thread about this same couple and them spending 4k for sailing lessons.

We all have those kind of friends. And chances are, we've all done some version of something financially idiotic ourselves ( I know I sure have).

[Baby_nurse]

It's probably nothing to LAL. We all come here for entertainment and/or education. Sometimes you gotta just come and vent the ridiculousness of people and their money. I've tried to have similar discussions about money in my sports team's message board and people look at me like I have three heads for suggesting an emergency fund.

Stories like these are like cautionary tales. "Look, you're an idiot if . . ."

Probably true, but I was questioning it since LAL started a second thread about this same couple and them spending 4k for sailing lessons.

We all have those kind of friends. And chances are, we've all done some version of something financially idiotic ourselves ( I know I sure have).

[jpg7n16]

I knew a girl who lived very much like your friends are now. She made about $50K a year, and spent about $50K per year. She had declared bankruptcy once, which was the only reason she spent only what she made. She just couldn't get credit extended to her for anything, so it was impossible for her to spend more.

Her motto, "I work to live. I don't live to work." Every weekend, she went out and "did something."

One year, in October, she was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer. She passed away in December of the same year.

She was the happiest person I ever knew. I'm glad she lived the way she did, and I know of no one who knew her who has ever had a bad thing to say about her.

I wonder how happy she would have been if she lived to see age 75+ and had nothing to live on but social security. How would you like 10+ years of living on SSI and nothing else? What would that life look like? Would she be as happy? Would she be able to afford to live the way she did in her younger years?

Many people are very happy today while living beyond their means. And for the moment everything works out great. But what about their future happiness? What about her tomorrow? Would she have been able to be the same happy person you knew?


I also "work to live" as she put it. Like her, I believe the point of my work is provide a good life for myself. But unlike her, I want my work to provide both a good life today AND in the future. Hence why I save for the future.

I don't agree that the only way to be happy, or to live your life to the fullest, is to spend every penny you earn today.

[Wino]

I wonder how happy she would have been if she lived to see age 75+

She had no kids. How happy would she have been to have saved monthly, then die unexpectedly? What good is having a bank balance at your funeral? To quote an old adage, "They don't put pockets in shrouds."

I agree her method was not ideal for the majority of people, but it worked for her, and in her case - like I said - I'm happy she did it.

I don't agree that the only way to be happy, or to live your life to the fullest, is to spend every penny you earn today.

Don't imply I've said things I did not. You can't even find a hint that I said this is the only way to be happy so there is no way for you to disagree with an unvoiced statement. You can MAKE the statement, and others can agree or disagree, but you cannot disagree with a position that has not been postulated.

The person I'm talking about would have been happy on SSI, I'm sure. She was happy with money. She was happy without money. She just didn't see any value in money. I think you should watch an old (and somewhat stupid) movie called "The Magic Christian." She was much like the Ringo Starr character in that movie; money just had no value for her.

[disneysteve]

[QUOTE=Wino;350182]She had no kids. How happy would she have been to have saved monthly, then die unexpectedly?[quote]
But the question is what if she didn't die unexpectedly? What if she lived a long healthy life and ran out of money because she hadn't saved for her future? Then what.

She was happy with money. She was happy without money. She just didn't see any value in money.

This is a fascinating statement. I think many of us tend to look at folks like this and think, "don't they realize the value of money" and perhaps the answer is, "no, they really don't." There are folks out there for whom money simply doesn't have value. Yes, it lets them buy things and go places but if they don't have it, that's okay too. I'll freely admit that I simply can't relate to that line of thinking but that doesn't make it wrong. As long as by ignoring the value of money, they aren't being a burden to others (family, tax payers, etc.), they can live however they'd like. If this woman was single and childless and nobody was financially impacted by her death, how she lived her life affected nobody but herself.

[reedda]

LivingAlmostLarge, I can completely relate to your frustration with your friend and the situation. I have a friend that seems completely oblivious to financial matters (not that I'm a master, far from it, but at least I'm trying...). It is so frustrating to watch her and her significant other (not married) make all these COMPLETELY STUPID DECISIONS!!! (eg. a new Harley, two dirt bikes that haven't even been ridden in two years, etc...) and then turn around and not understand (or even complain sometimes) about why some things aren't going their way (they can't afford to move to a better home, or the childcare situation in your story)

UGH! sometimes, I just want to smack her. And I *really* just want to beat on him. But that's beside the point...

It is never comfortable talking to friends about money situations. She is far more open about things, probably more than she should be, but then she also makes a lot of excuses when someone (anyone, not just me) tries to give her advice. I guess bottom line is that I have given up talking to her about it. I offered to help her make a budget (which is funny since I have a hard time following one myself), or help her set up a savings account or whatever.

She thinks I'm doing fine, that's how "off" she is about financial matters!

Wino, I'm sorry to hear about your friend. I'm glad she was able to enjoy life while she could.

I don't mean anything bad or disrespectful, but this girl didn't know she would die (that might be an assumption?), and did she just assume she would work forever?

I guess I can't be that optimistic. For one, I don't believe there will be social security or medicare anyway. Second, I am "only" 39 and I already don't want to be working....I certainly don't want to be working when I'm 70....

[Wino]

Reedda, I think it was just as Steve quoted, she just didn't see any value in money, so "easy come, easy go."

[UnknownXV]

She had no kids. How happy would she have been to have saved monthly, then die unexpectedly? What good is having a bank balance at your funeral? To quote an old adage, "They don't put pockets in shrouds."

I agree her method was not ideal for the majority of people, but it worked for her, and in her case - like I said - I'm happy she did it.



Don't imply I've said things I did not. You can't even find a hint that I said this is the only way to be happy so there is no way for you to disagree with an unvoiced statement. You can MAKE the statement, and others can agree or disagree, but you cannot disagree with a position that has not been postulated.

The person I'm talking about would have been happy on SSI, I'm sure. She was happy with money. She was happy without money. She just didn't see any value in money. I think you should watch an old (and somewhat stupid) movie called "The Magic Christian." She was much like the Ringo Starr character in that movie; money just had no value for her.

Boiling it down for me, a financial plan that only makes sense when you assume you will die young is a rather morbid plan. I not only assume I won't die young, but I'm planning on never dying at all (stem cells and blood filther + 60 years > growing entire complex organs + 50 years > Solving mysteries of consciousness in order to preserve our essence in a clone body or android body + lifetime of human race).

Now, that's optimistic.

[Wino]

But a financial plan that assumes you'll live a long life is equally nonsensical if you die young. I've never seen a hearse pulling a trailer.

[UnknownXV]

Right, that's why finding that balance everyone mentions is the best. I'm very frugal, and plan for retirement, but I don't forget to enjoy my life now too. That's part of the plan. If I died tomorrow, well it would suck that I'd be dead, but I wouldn't have many regrets.

[theduc]

More than one friend has said if you want the third kid have it. No one says I regret my third kid, but probably more people say I regret a boat. But it basically is the boat or the third kid. Her husband wants the boat.

She would love to try for a son. I can't say I blame her.

I tell my wife all the time that her parents only wanted a third son (since the first two were boys)... but instead, the next 9 were girls!