Social security and medicare

[cercis]

Re: Social security and medicare

There would be if we could trust the repubs to leave it alone.

And the truth is, we'd still have to pay a large portion of our salary to cover the people who are already collecting and have no other options.

[sweeps]

Re: Social security and medicare

Agreed. On both counts.

[VJW]

Re: Social security and medicare

I think what Jesse may be getting at is -- regardless of how efficient Social Security may be -- there is no guarantee that you're going to get anything when it's your time to collect benefits.

Except that current federal statute, in place from the 1930s, prevents the monies in the Social Security Trust Funds from being spent on anything else besides Social Security benefits. That is a “guarantee”.

Guess which federal statute would have been modified under this administration’s proposed “reform” of Social Security ?

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[sweeps]

Re: Social security and medicare

A guarantee that can be revoked at any time is not a guarantee.

[VJW]

Re: Social security and medicare

Well, if you want to get technical, that’s true of our ‘Bill of Rights’ and the U.S. Constitution itself.

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[flash]

Re: Social security and medicare

Well, I wasn't going to jump into this debate, but I am in a place to provide a different perspective. No flames, please, just consider this.

We were scraping by at 30, but by 40 we had saved enough to retire quite comfortable. We have been basically retired for five years, occasionally doing some consulting etc. But invoking our 401K or other retirement plans is not an option for quite awhile, so we live on no income other than what we already have.

SSI, whether or not it is there in 10, 20, or 50 years is not as much of an issue as the medical. Self-coverage of medical insurance without government assistance is expensive, right now we each pay $500 a month WITHOUT prescription coverage.

Now, for those under SSDI or SSI, yes, they receive Medicare. Medicare covers hospitalization, and if you are "fortunate" to qualify for part B, they cover HALF of your medical, just doctors and tests, no meds or eyes or dental. To make up the difference, you must buy a Medigap plan, which is Aetna or BlueCross, etc., and covers the other HALF of what Medicare ALLOWS (i.e., no scripts, dental, eye). A Medigap plan is around $250 a month, although if you want to go the HMO route, there are different things, some are up around $500.

Now, add in the Rx. Medicare Part D covers a small amount, then nothing until you reach "catastrophic" coverage needs. So, you can pay a premium to cover a small amount of meds on the chance that you MIGHT need meds later, or you can try to find a plan that will cover your meds if you are ALREADY at catastrophic leves (i.e., you already know you will zip past the donut hole and into full coverage). Insurance companies don't want to cover a known loss.

So, if you are LUCKY enough to have SSI and Medicare, you will need ALL the SSI to cover the Medicare/Medigap/PlanD, plus some.

One more thing, it is easy to plan for living on your own invested retirement. It is quite another to actually have to start withdrawing money to pay expenses once you've retired. We never had a GOAL to retire at 40, but it happened. It's good, but not as easy as it sounds.

[sweeps]

Re: Social security and medicare

VJW: I shouldn't have to remind you that repealing a Constitutional amendment is WAY different than repealing a federal statute. If Social Security was in the Constitution, it would be considerably more difficult to mess with.

It's funny how you are always so cynical and critical of our government and politicians, and yet you trust them to not touch Social Security. It's bizarre really.

[VJW]

Re: Social security and medicare

VJW: I shouldn't have to remind you that repealing a Constitutional amendment is WAY different than repealing a federal statute.

You’re the one that said “A guarantee that can be revoked at any time is not a guarantee”. As I posted, TECHNICALLY, the ‘Bill of Rights’ can be repealed.

It's funny how you are always so cynical and critical of our government and politicians, and yet you trust them to not touch Social Security.

But I DON’T trust them, which is why it is so important that everyone know who is on whose side and exactly what their agendas are. If I trusted the Bushies, I would not be pointing out their propaganda campaigns.

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[jmjj215]

Re: Social security and medicare

What is the SS Trust invested in? Where does it generate its returns?

[sweeps]

Re: Social security and medicare

Short-term certificates of indebtedness and long-term Treasury bonds. The bonds are "special-issue", i.e. not publicly tradeable.

If you go to SSA's Investment Holdings page, you can get reports on what investments the trust fund is currently holding. It looks like the fund is currently earning 5.279%.

[jmjj215]

Re: Social security and medicare

Hey thanks Sweeps.

[Gailete]

Re: Social security and medicare

The new private-sector prescription drug program is a miserable disaster.

This program hasn't even BEGUN yet. It doesn't begin until January 2006. How can you declare it a miserable disaster. I am on SSD and will be eligible for Medicare and the drug program starting in March. It will be a huge help in helping me pay for my necessary drugs. I estimate it will save my family several thousand a year. How can that be disasterous? Complicated yes-but with careful comparison, a person can find good savings.

I also note that people keep referring to SSI and SSD as if they are the same thing. SSD is THE Social Security Disability program. SSI is a supplemental program which works as a welfare type thing if your income is too low to survive on. I am not too familiar with it as I am not eligible, but these are two very different programs with different guidelines and eligiblities.

Gail

[VJW]

Re: Social security and medicare

This program hasn't even BEGUN yet. It doesn't begin until January 2006.

It's already in place, and begins in about 20 days.

How can you declare it a miserable disaster.

Simple.

First, it’s not a Medicare Prescription Drug program. It is a highly inefficient private-sector prescription drug program.

Second, the majority of the federal spending on the program does not pay to provide prescription drugs for seniors, but instead, provides corporate welfare for the pharmaceutical companies, the corporate HMOs, the for-profit corporate hospitals, and the health insurance companies.

Third, the drug coverage is not as extensive as was promised, there are ridiculous penalties to blackmail seniors into joining the program even when they are not currently taking any medications, the fact that one is locked into plans and cannot change except during very small windows, yet the plans can change at any time without notice, and the donut-hole coverage is despicable.

Then there’s the fact that because of the way the program is constructed, they’ve left seniors open to scammers and rip-off artists and the vicissitudes of Corporate America’s profit motives.

I also note that people keep referring to SSI and SSD as if they are the same thing. SSD is THE Social Security Disability program. SSI is a supplemental program which works as a welfare type thing if your income is too low to survive on. I am not too familiar with it as I am not eligible, but these are two very different programs with different guidelines and eligiblities.

Quite.

SSI, although managed by the Social Security Administration, derives it’s funds from the general fund, not Social Security revenues.

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[Gailete]

Re: Social security and medicare

I have no intentions of getting into a fight about this, but have you actually researched these programs for yourself or are you basing your comments on research that others have done? I myself am DELIGHTED with what I found while researching the Medicare drug program. No it may not prove to be all things to all people, but for the people who truly need help with their prescription bills it will be a relief. Because of my illness, I take a great many meds to allow myself to function, the cost of some of them are huge. Currently both my husband and myself are without health insurance of any kind. To find a program that will allow me to abtain needed meds for $5-10 a month instead of $100 is great. Even with paying for my Medicare premium and a drug program plus the meds, I will being paying way LESS for my health care than I did while on very expensive COBRA payments.

Last year our health care costs topped $10,000 out of pocket! I will take any kind of help whether someone thinks it is miserable or inefficient or not. Many of the drug program are very affordable and do not even charge the $250 deductible that is allowed by the government. Many of the programs also discount the meds while in the 'donut hole'.

Your own personal opinion is valid for you, but please do not discount a program whose time has come (as flawed as it may or may not be) that will be of great value for many of us.

Gail

[katwoman]

Re: Social security and medicare

Gail the program might be a welcome for you but not for all.

My mother had fantastic drug coverage under her old employer (and she's been retired for 14 years). Once this program came out it gave the company the ability to drop prescription coverage for all. The excuse was costs were too high blah, blah. Now she'll be paying a lot MORE. I know 'cause I'm the one doing the research for her. She's in no position to do it herself. I keep wondering about other people who have no one to help them with this mess.

And what's worse, this is all a crap shoot! If your doc wants you on a new med and it isn't on your carriers list you have options all right. Take a generic (not always feasible) or petition they cover it (can you imagine them being agreeable?) or pay for it yourself anyway. In other words, the consumer is not given any wiggle room once they sign on. Most people are going to be too old and too jaded to fight corporate America.

Do you REALLY believe these plans aren't going to play the bait and switch game? Didn't the HMO's teach us a thing or two?

Don't get too down on VJW. He's actually quite lucid on the subject.

Later, in the next month, I'll come back and post actual comparisons of my mothers' old coverage and this new experiment. Until we can speak in real dollars, I fear this discussion will be academic for most.