Minimum wage, good or bad?

[VJW]

Re: Minimum wage, good or bad?

Quite.

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[VJW]

Re: Minimum wage, good or bad?

If people want to give money and support to struggling people then they should be free to do so. They shouldn't be forced to do so.

There you have the crux of the difference between two distinct ideologies.

The trouble is, the ideology you seem to like and prefer, has been historically demonstrated to be an abject failure, as recently re-proven by Katrina, and the fact that over the past five calendar years, the American national economy is down millions of jobs, the Standard of Living of American workers has declined every year, inflation-adjusted wages of American workers have declined every year, bankruptcies are at the highest level in history, home foreclosures are at the highest level in history, federal budget deficits are at the highest level in history, poverty has risen every year, the number of uninsured Americans has risen every year, and long-term unemployment is at the highest level in thirty years.

This with those that share your preferred ideology in control of all three branches of government.

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[Bruce Wayne]

Re: Minimum wage, good or bad?

I don't share Republican/Conservative ideologies.

[Dingoluv4eva]

Re: Minimum wage, good or bad?

it seems bruce, and some others see people that work "minimum wage" as people that messed up.

I dont see them that way.

I see "minimum wage workers" maybe single mothers working 2 jobs...(don't presume its cause she's divorced and screwed up)

i see people past their prime.. grandma's and grandpa's trying to stay active.

I see the very young who are just gaining experience in the workforce.

there is no need to let corporations go ahead and exploit those people.
Minimum wage works.
and it should be raised, according to inflation etc.

supposedly most states + federal minimum wage hasn't been changed since 1997.

I have no problem with people making $6.75.. I believe thats wicked cheap labor.

I think it should be controlled by Counties and not states or Federal probbably tho..

maybe state and federal overseeing it, but let each country decide on its own minimum wage, depending on what the costs there are..

like it should be higher in boston, than maybe in Rural New Hampshire.

[BAGAGT1]

Re: Minimum wage, good or bad?

People who grow up on in the inner city often do not have the same access to a good education and other opportunities, and that sets the stage for a mediocre or worse lifestyle. As i think someone else here implied, many poor people are single parents, namely, single mothers trying to raise children without a father/husband around. You can cast judgement again and just say, don't have sex and you won't get into trouble, but it's just not realistic to expect that preaching abstinence is the solution. (Birth contro? Yes!)

I have to disagree with a couple of your points:

• People who grow up in the inner city do not have access to an education.
• Preaching abstinence is not the solution.

Point One:

I grew up in the inner city schools of Chicago, at the time William Bennet (the former Education Secretary) described the Chicago Public School system as the worst in the nation. However, I managed to graduate with at least the ability to read, write, and perform simple arithmetic, and enunciate the English language (somewhat) correctly ( I also got a scholarship to attend College, where I graduated with my Bachelor's degree, not bad for an inner city Chicago kid Huh!). While I did see a lot of problems with the schools, the real issue was not the quality of the education (sure the quality is not as good as most of the suburban schools), the problem was with the students. Far too many students disrespecting their teachers, disrupting the class (same students every single day), and generally not giving a rats ass about their education.

Which leads me to my next point....

Point Two:

The problem with education in the inner city schools, is the family, or better said the lack of a family. Too many children today are growing up without either a Mom or Dad in the household (and the problem is more severe in the inner city). These kids are growing up with no direction and no discipline. Statistically speaking, these kids are more likely to drop out of school, father or mother their own children at an early age, and the repeat the same vicious cycle. I consider myself fortunate; I grew up in a home with both a Mom and Dad who both placed a heavy emphasis on education.

So in order to break the cycle, people need to get educated so they have a skill that will pay more than just the minimum wage, plan a family rather than "accidentally" having a family at an early age. While it may seem unrealistic to preach abstinence, the fact is, you cannot get pregnant, if you are not sexually active.


Now as for the minimum wage, while I would love to think that corporations would pay the right salary for the job, history has proven otherwise. Even today, the large push to outsource both blue and white collar work offshore, proves that profit is and always will be the motivating factor for any corporation. If a company can manufacture the same product for less money elsewhere, they will do it. There are still illegal sweatshops operating here in the United States, employing illegal immigrants at low wages (less than minimum wage). Chicago has a large Polish immigrant community, and there are a lot of Polish Immigrants working skilled constructions jobs, but I am quite sure they are not getting the market wage precisely because their employers know that their employees can't get a job anywhere else because they don't speak English.

I would highly recommend reading Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" to get a glimpse of what life was like before the minimum wage and OSHA.

[PrincessPerky]

Re: Minimum wage, good or bad?

Heh the polish point makes me laugh, I live in NC where most of the construction is by Mexicans, legal or illegal, and the lack of English bothers them not a bit, the forman gets paid to speak spanish . (cause Americans around here don't do such 'dirty' work)

Helping people WILL decline as more and more people assume the government is already doing it, why should I offer a hand out when I can point to a welfare office? As a person low on the income scale I can tell you exactly what form the 'help' in America comes "why don't you get on WIC? or Welfare? GEt medicade to pay for the pregnancy? or the kids health insurance thing (dunno the name)? Personally I avoid mention of my finances to real people cause I do not want any of those, I could use someone else making dinner though, but any pregnant woman could . I will not take your money to pay for any food or health stuff, while I still have many luxuries here (check out my I'm rich thread).

Also I love the point about education, I love to teach, I feel education is one of the most important things you can do for a person (young or old) but I do not feel that Mass education is working, Voluntary education would result in a smaller number of people with 'paper degrees', but a larger number of people with real skills and knowledge.

When something is taken for granted it is not valued as much, the education system we have places only a value on the 'higher learning', college, but that is not all that is important, and far to many people get 'social promotions' just so the teacher can stop having to control them (not that the next class is any easier, but at least new, might be teachable). I think a total revamp of the education system would be wonderful. Turn the schools into centers for free classes, at any age, on basic math, basic reading, and then paid courses on whatever you can find a teacher for. Pay so and so to teach you how to fix a car (get yours fixed in the process .) pay another to teach you computer science (not what is in a book but hands on how do I make a website? or whatever). Why do people have to wait till they are in there 40s and having a midlife crisis to do this?

BTW I would be on minimum wage if I worked (I am a SAHM) I do not think it is people who 'messed up' it is people who havn't yet learned enough skills to get out of entry jobs. Go work in retail learn more stuff and move up, work at taco bell around here, learn spanish and get to be a manager (helps if you are already a native spanish speaker).

[Dingoluv4eva]

Re: Minimum wage, good or bad?

Why do inner city kidz suffer in education?

cause they got too many other things going on.

If you grow up in an apartment type area with tons of kids on every floor.
from an early age, you begin to socialize, and play, and get into drama, sports etc..

when school comes around, you;re trying to protect your reputation, cause you are so wrapped up into the social ladder, that you are branded a distraction and face disciplinary problems.

not only that but it eats away at your time, where in the past u were doing other things, and your real commitment lays there.

there is no time for homework, you got things to do. etc.
even the poor fool that was shelted by their parents in the city and wants to learn, throw him in that environment, and suddenly, they are "not cool" and their confidence drops to 0 cause they're out of step... and they fail too..

only maybe after high school, after they are taken away from that environment, they might say "oh wait! i get it now, school is good"

[sweeps]

Re: Minimum wage, good or bad?

How about meeting people in need somewhere in the middle? There are many cases where someone can't work because he needs health insurance -- if he gets off the couch and gets a job, he'll make too much for Medicaid, but he'll barely be able to keep food on the table, let alone pay for health insurance.

Let's help people who are trying hard to make ends meet, rather than providing an incentive to just living off the system. Health insurance for people who are working a certain number of hours a week but not making a certain level of income. Subsidized education only for those that are maintaining a certain GPA. Matching donations for people who save their retirement, rather than wait for social security to save them. You get the idea.

Of course there are exceptions (mentally handicapped individuals for example), but I think this is the direction that we should be heading.

[PrincessPerky]

Re: Minimum wage, good or bad?

Oh my, now I am rolling in laughter, as a Homeschooling parent I constantly hear, "but what about socialization?" Now I don't know how many people think like Dingo, but if it were a bit more prevelant I could stop sounding like a broken record when people ask about homeschooling! And BTW, schooling isn't important, EDUCATION is, and those are TWO VERY different things.

Sweeps, VOOM, Voice Of Opposing Moderation , not to popular, it is all or nothing in America, sells better .

[VJW]

Re: Minimum wage, good or bad?

I don't share Republican/Conservative ideologies.

Gee, you could have fooled me:

You are an advocate of a regressive ‘Flat Tax’, the American RightWing is an advocate of a regressive ‘Flat Tax’.

You are an advocate of cutting tax rates as economic public policy, the American RightWing is an advocate of cutting tax rates as economic public policy.

You are an advocate of privatizing healthcare insurance, the American RightWing is an advocate of privatizing healthcare insurance.

You are an advocate of assuming charities will take care of the poor, the American RightWing is an advocate of assuming charities will take care of the poor.

You are an advocate of eliminating the Minimum Wage, the American RightWing is an advocate of eliminating the Minimum Wage.

Pardon me, but I see a duck.

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[barbara L]

Re: Minimum wage, good or bad?

I don't think mimimum wage was meant for families, it was meant for teen age children and low paying entry level jobs. It used to be that if you went to work every day and worked hard you could expect to get raises and move upwards. You just can't expect that anymore because every year taxes and insurance go up. I know someone who owns his own business and had to lay someone off because of the increase in minimum wage, health insurance and workers' compensation. There is only so much put aside for pay and insurance programs. This man I know isn't driving a BMW. He drives an old Chevy and works 60 hours a week. He is beginning to think that he would be better off if he could get a regular paycheck.

[Dingoluv4eva]

Re: Minimum wage, good or bad?

This man I know isn't driving a BMW. He drives an old Chevy and works 60 hours a week. He is beginning to think that he would be better off if he could get a regular paycheck.

Time to buy a BMW and write it off as a business expense, there are hard working lobbyists in washington working many many hours, creating loop holes for businesses to use..

why else u think your street hasn't been paved in years? cause that "expected tax income" dissapeared when your business owning neighbor bought an escalade and wrote it off against his income.

[Fern]

Re: Minimum wage, good or bad?

Bagat, we actually have a lot in common, tho we disagree on these points.

For my part, i came from a 'broken home' (my parents divorced when i was 6) and grew up in a working class family as it was just my mother as breadwinner. I had very little parenting, was left to fend for myself much of the time, dad largely absent during many critical years. i'm a product of the public school system, but graduated from a private women's college in Mass and did quite well in terms of education and career.

So we may both be exceptions to the rule, i'm not saying it's impossible for poor people to get a good education, as we both prove that's not the case, but not everyone is blessed with the same native intelligence at birth. It's part genetics, part environment. Some kids are born with drugs in their system. Some are born with learning disabilities. Not everyone is created equal!

Basically, i see minimum wage as a very good use of my tax dollars. There are plenty of other things that are a waste of taxpayer dollars and no need to go into that here. Well, ok, i'm tempted. How about the billions spent on space exploration?? How about the billions spent on invading Iraq, not to mention American lives lost?

[VJW]

Re: Minimum wage, good or bad?

I know someone who owns his own business and had to lay someone off because of the increase in minimum wage, health insurance and workers' compensation.

While that allegory may be true, it is certainly not representative. Both times that the Federal Minimum Wage was increased in the ‘90s, the the total number of people in the national workforce increased as the Unemployment Rate declined. This is due to the fact that like others in those income levels, more than 90% of any increase in wages is spent back into the economy, thereby increasing the overall pie.

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[barbara L]

Re: Minimum wage, good or bad?

Hello,

I'm confused about the BMW. Maybe someone could help. I may not be too bright in this area because I have never owned a business. I thought paying people was a "write off" for taxes too. Am I wrong? Is worker's compensation also a deduction? I would think that an increase in minimum wage might be very popular with larger business, but not so with the small one owner, one store type of business, the kind who employ less than 20 people. I thought if a business wasn't making a profit, it really wasn't making a profit, and if they have to cut expenses they cut people. Am I totally ignorant??? I