please help me.

[mama25]

no rice, beans, legumes, grains, etc. I could make rice and beans last a lifetime, but the simple carbs make 2 of my kids blood sugars skyrocket.
They only drink water, eat 6x a day- small snack like meals. each plate has a serving of cooked meat,raw fruit and raw veggie. Snacks are dried fruit and walnuts. Sometimes we get good chocolate as a treat (not cheap!)
I make my own condiments, like mayo, then make lemon juice mirangue(sp?) cookies for treats with leftover egg whites.
(ot- this diet made me drop 50 lbs, and brought my dh diabetes under control, too.)
we typically shop 3x a week because we go thru everything quickly. Our fridge is pretty empty- just plates of roasted meat and veggies.
I budgeted for 1k per month- but I'll look at what we actually have spent in the past 3 months to see how accurate I am.
(I was pretty accurate. We average about $1k per month- I looked at the past 12 months.)

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

My biggest suggestion is that you ask your husband to take over bill paying for a few months. It sounds like he has got to have to deal with the real shortfall of money if there is any hope in getting him to cooperate in cutting the spending.

Maybe you are going to have to make "desperate" changes immediately to survive.

How many plain, old fashioned diapers could sixty dollars buy? If anyone is wanting to give a present for the new baby, ask for plain cloth diapers. Have you got more than one in diapers now? A tip from my poverty days is that old real linen table cloths and table napkins can be made into very soft absorbent diapers.

If that $400 power bill includes air conditioning, live without it this year. I know it is miserable to be hot and pregnant, but well, our grandmothers did it. That was just part of life on earth. Similarly, oil $400? Is that really monthly, or just an occasional fill up? If you are not already doing so, cut back the thermostat as low as is healthy for the occupants of your household.

I'm surprised that if your kids can handle the blood sugar rise of fresh and dried fruit that they could not handle one of the more fibrous low glycemic index legumes such as lentils or garbanzo beans/chick peas. Especially if you all only eat raw foods. Sprouted lentils or other legumes are really cheap.

Have you looked into buying nuts in bulk? You might save a lot that way if you really eat a lot of them. Nuts generally keep pretty well for a year or more. There are nut tree farms you can purchase from directly by internet or if you travel to them.

Yes, get a mower and mow your own grass. A $200 mower will should work well for a couple years at least. And I agree about cutting the pest control.

Get out of all communications and entertainment contracts or get them reduced as soon as you can.

Um, if you have substantial area for a garden, plant lots of peanuts this year. I promise you they are very easy to grow and productive. (You should find out how to mature and save the nuts for seeding next year to save further money.) If that yard is big enough for trees, start researching what nut trees will work for your area. There is a variety of almond that begins bearing in only three years---that won't help now, of course, but those kid's appetites are only going to get bigger down the road.

I don't know if eating dairy foods could be any cheaper than the things you are already eating, but I want to mention that not all dairy foods have much milk sugar. If you go for the fermented cheeses, the sugars are pretty much used up by the microbes that ferment the milk into cheese. Generally, the harder the cheese the lower carb. Even yogurt is lower carb than fresh milk.

....Now....in reality, I think you all are probably going to have to get out of that house. That is the biggest change you could make in expenses. There is no guarantee that your DH's income will ever come up. Even if it magically returned to $10,000/month today, there is still no security in a house that takes so much of your income. The mortgage will soon be $4800, which is, obviously, 48% of your that $10,000. I know you feel blamed for buying such a house when you did not even want it in the first place. Gyah, what a bummer. Next time, I'm sure you will not sign a contract for anything like that.

[ktmarvels]

I'm sorry that you are in such a difficult situation. I hope this rough patch improves soon. In general I'd go through every one of those items you listed above and ask if it is really necessary or if there was a way to have that need me more inexpensively. For example buying a mower would be less than the $2000/year you spend on lawn care. Even getting it cut less frequently would help free up some money. Do you really need TV service? What about prepaid cell service? I would also look through your house and see what you could sell. Have garage sales, or sell on craigs list.

I know it can be hard especially since you say your husband is the big spender in the family. However maybe showing him the numbers he would realize and try to cut back some too.

[PetMom]

I could not tell from list if they take out medical insurance from your husbands salary (salary and commission correct?). Yet you list the Dr. expenses and those appear to be dedutible amounts.

With pre diabetes and blood sugar/weight problems have you looked into the factor that exercise can play in bringing down blood sugar. It is a lot of activity but as it appears your kids are not Type 1 diabetics and you check with your Dr. this could be good solution for this.

Many people keep this under control with regular exercise and are able to eat perhaps a protein/bean, brown rice, veggie for a meal. Of course you sugar test this out after a meal and check with your Dr. about doing this and any concerns.

I have read of the Paleo Diet and it is interesting but some people may be driven into living in a cave to afford it. I personally have given up a lot of our healthiest (really expensive)foods, even my organic olive oil (ouch!) for now because of finances. We have put full effort into an organic garden this year. I know the dilemma of healthy eating/lower medical costs/ vs. just getting by.

The Pest control expense should be done away with immediately. There are a lot of natural/less toxic/cheap ways to control all sorts of pests. If it is for your lawn then that is not a good thing for kids to play on (personal well researched opinion there) no matter what the pesticide co. says. Ditto for any spraying in the house. That would be a big chunck there saved.

Make your own natural cleaning products - there are some theories that the Chemco stuff you buy in stores may contribute/even create asthma problems in kids.

I think this situation has happened to a lot of people that were doing well and could afford a lifestyle that is quickly becoming unsustainable in this economy. This economy is bad and people are still feeling the effects and will for a while. Survival is now the mode for some people. No shame in moving out of house to something smaller and downsizing.

[jIM_Ohio]

Thank you for your responses.

Jim-
No one rides in his car, but other salesmen.
His income is the only one coming in. It is partially salary (commission % from people who work for him) plus 1099 for his own business.
The car is added into taxes, but our return was only $9k this year- he earned ttl 25k 1099, and $122k salary. Its addition did in crease our return, but I am not sure what impact it had.
budget:
mortgage $2,589.32 *resets to 4800 in 1 mo.
auto 1 $209.95
auto 2 lease $872.87
ttl $3,672.14
Debt
Who Monthly
cc1 $140.00
cc2 $200.00
bank loc $40.00
cc3 $130.00
car tax $185.06
cc4 $50.00
loc $266.00
ttl $1,011.06
Medical
Who Monthly
lab $20.00
dr 1 $30.00
dr 2 $30.00
dr 3 $50.00
eye $40.00
ttl $170.00
Household
Who Monthly
lawn $180.00
pest $60.00
Diapers $60.00
auto gas $200.00
trash $30.00
power $400.00
school $11.00
Auto Ins $185.50
Home ins $129.00
Cellphone $170.00
Groceries $1,000.00
cab/tv/net $170.00
medicine $200.00
Oil $400.00
proptaxes $719.54
Auto Tax $30.00
ttl $3,945.04
so- on an average, with commission constantly changing- some months he earns enough to catch up, some months, he brings home $600.00. So our monthly nut is about $8700.00. Since Jan 2010- his average is $4k per month. Needless to say- past due on lots of bills. We save when big money comes in- only to pay out the next month. Nothing every stays in the bank.
As I look at the expenses, I think- how the hell did we pay these making so little, the tax return paid one month, last years income carried over to cover another month.

I guess I need someone else to look at this and give me their take- what am I doing wrong? what can I change?Am I really in a bad place? or on the verge of it? if so, how to I come back from the edge?

I know chunking out the kids takes 2. God forgive me, but I was done with 4. He is beside himself with joy because of the new baby, me not so much...simply because of this situation.

yes- I know I said $1k for lease, but the actual amount is $872- not much difference to me- being emotional an all about it.

Here are some points of emphasis for me

Debt
Who Monthly
cc1 $140.00
cc2 $200.00
bank loc $40.00
cc3 $130.00
car tax $185.06
cc4 $50.00
loc $266.00
ttl $1,011.06

This is 25% of income tied into DEBT PAYMENTS
I bet if we looked at the amount and interest rates of these debts, we would see more problems.

Get rid of all these debts, that helps budget considerably.

Medical
Who Monthly
lab $20.00
dr 1 $30.00
dr 2 $30.00
dr 3 $50.00
eye $40.00
ttl $170.00

Another situation where a problem was financed. Pay these off... while not a signicant expense, you will see a trend in my responses.

school $11.00
Auto Ins $185.50
Home ins $129.00

Stop financing such small expenses.. you need to pay cash for these items from savings, not finance them all year.

auto 1 $209.95
auto 2 lease $872.87

Auto 1 is just as much a problem as auto 2. You have a car payment, yet you do not bring in an income. I realize kids need transportation, but do they need to be transported in a car which is financed?

The $872 to me is not an issue, until it is clearly documented how this is treated on tax return for business reasons (if $9000 comes back because of the car, this is a non issue).


The primary problem I see is you FINANCE everything. Instead of looking at total cost, you look at cost per month. This is a typical consumer problem, and the way to prevent this from eating you alive is to stop financing anything, effective immediately.

Eventually cash flow will be created, this can then pay down other debts, then once all debts are paid off, you can save cash for expected and unexpected expenses. Stop financing.

We save when big money comes in- only to pay out the next month.

You need a better system. One good month might need to fund many bad months. The more you finance, the more bad months hurt. Do not use financing as an excuse for why the problems exist... just stop doing it, pay off the debts you have as quickly as you can, and this situation goes away "fast".

Most of the problems are cash flow... it appears annual budget comes close to balancing... removing the credit cards and health bills you financed should make it easier... then focus on paying down the mortgage.... and possibly consider refinancing once the consumer debt is paid off.

[mama25]

I think I wasn't clear on the budget. we are not "financing" (or maybe we are and I haven't looked at it that way) as far as doctors go. We visit the dr, what the insurance doesn't cover, we pay cash. But I need to budget with each one of the doctors for the balances because I can't pay them big chunks of money.
We have no active credit cards. Just a debit card linked to the checking acct. All the cc's are closed account, some have been transfered to collection agencies whom we are now paying.
The debt payments of 25% are not new debt, just old that is taking eternity to pay off.
The medical seems to always be there, because once someone is paid off, I need to get blood work done for myself and one other child because we have thyroid conditions that require frequent testing.
DH does have ins coverage thru work, but we still seem to spend a boat load on medical! (arrgh)
I feel like a rat on a wheel going nowhere.
I am sorry to throw up road blocks to everyone's sound advice, I just need to work thru them to get to the goal of debt free! Where is the best place to start right now?

thank you again.

[mama25]

"You need a better system. One good month might need to fund many bad months. The more you finance, the more bad months hurt. Do not use financing as an excuse for why the problems exist... just stop doing it, pay off the debts you have as quickly as you can, and this situation goes away "fast"."
I agree.

[cschin4]

First, you need to take a deep breath. There is some truth to him "needing to keep up appearances" if he is in sales, on commisssion, etc. SO, the car and fancy clothes may be a requirement to get ahead.
However, the best thing you can do is sit down together and plan your future. If you bought a home that is beyond your present means, admit it, put it up for sale and downsize. And, you may have lived the "good life" for awhile, we all did, but nothing lasts forever. So, now look at it as an opportunity to really find out what is important in life and bring your family together. THere is plenty of work you could do as well from flipping burgers, working retail, etc. You can get hired while pregnant. And, you can find temp or part time work.
However, if his job isn't what it used to be, then maybe he needs to look for another job as well.

[cschin4]

Looking at your budget, your home is WAYYY too expensive and so are your cars even on your best income. A $2500 mortgage? I earned more than he and would NEVER even consider a mortgage at that rate or cost nor a car. YOu are creating problems for yourself. You seriously need to down size your lifestyle or you are going to spend your life living check to check and that ain't fun.

[jIM_Ohio]

[QUOTE=mama25;257895]I think I wasn't clear on the budget. we are not "financing" (or maybe we are and I haven't looked at it that way) as far as doctors go. We visit the dr, what the insurance doesn't cover, we pay cash. But I need to budget with each one of the doctors for the balances because I can't pay them big chunks of money.
We have no active credit cards. Just a debit card linked to the checking acct. All the cc's are closed account, some have been transfered to collection agencies whom we are now paying.
The debt payments of 25% are not new debt, just old that is taking eternity to pay off.
The medical seems to always be there, because once someone is paid off, I need to get blood work done for myself and one other child because we have thyroid conditions that require frequent testing.
DH does have ins coverage thru work, but we still seem to spend a boat load on medical! (arrgh)
I feel like a rat on a wheel going nowhere.
I am sorry to throw up road blocks to everyone's sound advice, I just need to work thru them to get to the goal of debt free! Where is the best place to start right now?

thank you again.[/QUOTE

But I need to budget with each one of the doctors for the balances because I can't pay them big chunks of money.

You need to be able to pay anyone and everyone big chunks of money
this is a symptom of the single biggest problem you need to fix.

All the cc's are closed account, some have been transfered to collection agencies whom we are now paying.

This is a second symptom of the same problem.

DH does have ins coverage thru work, but we still seem to spend a boat load on medical!

The insurance is a good thing, how you are budgeting health care is not effective.

I am sorry to throw up road blocks to everyone's sound advice, I just need to work thru them to get to the goal of debt free! Where is the best place to start right now?

When something costs $5000 and you tell yourself "I can afford it because I can pay $50 for 100 months to pay it off"... then something else costs $1000 and you justify that by saying I can afford to pay $100 for 10 months...

in your mind you are spending $150/mo
in my mind you spent $6000 you did not have

That is the problem
The symptoms of the problem are the cancelled credit cards, you worrying about the house payment increasing, the fact you have no savings... all are symptoms... you don't cure a disease by treating the symptoms, you treat them by solving the problem.

The problem is how you see money. Do not look at money as cash flow (as in each month I will have $X to spend), treat money as a scarce resource... and measure yourself by how much you keep each month, not on what you spend.


The best way to fix your problems are to get the cards in collections paid off- that frees up close to $1100 in cash flow.

Other things to consider:
1) sell your car and go down to one car... eliminates the payment and insurance costs. If this is not doable, get a car you can drive which has no payment (remove the liability from the cash flow).

2) Preventive medicine- try to keep health good enough to avoid seeing the doctor... if you have to spend $50-100 on preventative treatment, that is better than a $1000 doctor bill later.

3) Have DH get a second job and start adding some income to the equation. You do not have an income problem, but increasing income will not hurt. Or next spring one of you take a tax class and work for HR block (for example) bringing in extra income for 4 months. Training course is $300-400, you can make all that back and more, plus find ways to save family money on taxes.


Others have suggested DH and yourself sit down and go over the money. I agree. The problem is not the car (as you suggested in first post). It is MUCH MUCH bigger, and much different.

The problems as I see them

1) You need a spending pattern (budget) which meets needs of variable income. Much of this is controlling household spending. Distinguish between household spending and business spending- my focus is on household issues.

2) The business spending needs to be well documented. Some of this is for tax reasons, some of this is for communication (between spouse and yourself, and board and you).

3) Financing problems and bad debt. Whether its the cars you are financing or the debt you have in collections, you need to get aggressive about these and remove them from the family budget. This one single issue fixed every problem you have except the house.

4) Analyze the house/mortgage. Can you move and live cheaper somewhere else? Can you take on renters? What are current loan terms, what are terms when load is reset? Can issue #3 be taken care of before the mortgage resets?




I would build a budget like this

1) Fixed costs/required costs:

a) House
b) utilities
c) food/groceries

2) Debt
a) list all debts from above (health care is no different than a credit card in this case, same with non work car). Focus on one debt, then send minimum payments to the others.
Once that first debt is paid off, focus on a different debt and pay minimums on the others

you did not detail the debts, so which debt is paid off in which order should be determined once you are comfortable lists all debts, interest rates and payment terms


3) Discretionary costs
a) clothing
b) cell phones
c) similar things you can do without for 2-3 years
d) cable

I would keep discretionary costs to a minimumn. These are not necessities and you need to cut back (way back) in this area until you have fixed costs and debt under control.

[jIM_Ohio]

First, you need to take a deep breath. There is some truth to him "needing to keep up appearances" if he is in sales, on commisssion, etc. SO, the car and fancy clothes may be a requirement to get ahead.
However, the best thing you can do is sit down together and plan your future. If you bought a home that is beyond your present means, admit it, put it up for sale and downsize. And, you may have lived the "good life" for awhile, we all did, but nothing lasts forever. So, now look at it as an opportunity to really find out what is important in life and bring your family together. THere is plenty of work you could do as well from flipping burgers, working retail, etc. You can get hired while pregnant. And, you can find temp or part time work.
However, if his job isn't what it used to be, then maybe he needs to look for another job as well.

There is also a difference between spending money on clothes and spending money on fancy clothes.


About 5 years ago my wife changed jobs and went from Business casual to seeing clients daily. We did not have much money at the time... (relative to now anyway) and we went out and spent about $300-$500 on at least 10 new suits.

She bought classy looking suits. I would not call them fancy.

If a person is in sales, they probably need about 5-10 suits and 10-20 dress shirts and ties. They do not need to buy a new suit every week or every month or even every year.

So I'd like more information on what business the spouse is in, what the specific dress code is, and how the money on clothes is spent (weekly/monthly/yearly).

I would expect dry cleaning is higher than clothing budget I think....

[cptacek]

he gets so angry with me and I wind up crying, feeling worthless and frustrated

Your husband needs a reality check. You need to figure out how to talk to him without crying, even if he is being an ass. Does he have a clue how much you (general you - your entire family) spend a month?

If it were me, and I had to choose between a leased $1000 / month car and food for my babies, I'd not pay the car. And when they come get it, maybe he will get it then.

[jIM_Ohio]

Your husband needs a reality check. You need to figure out how to talk to him without crying, even if he is being an ass. Does he have a clue how much you (general you - your entire family) spend a month?

If it were me, and I had to choose between a leased $1000 / month car and food for my babies, I'd not pay the car. And when they come get it, maybe he will get it then.

I don't think the leased car is the problem
Car payments per year are just under $11,000 for the lease, and the tax return is $9,000... I do not think the lease is the problem

The $1100 in payments to other debtors is the problem... which OP did not mention until halfway down first page.

If the DH/DW cannot communicate, that is also a symptom of a bigger problem. There were some conversations my DW and I had where she started breaking down crying, and it sets the whole process back... and maybe I was being an ass (and maybe I wasn't), but that is no excuse to cry and avoid solving the problems.

Once my wife learned that its not personal when we talk about money, she stopped crying (and avoiding the conversations), and when we have money issues, we talk about them, discuss ways to solve them, and generally now have a better quality of life than at any other time in our marriage.

We only are seeing one side of this discussion (online) and I am giving husband benefit of the doubt over here... because I see $1100/mo in credit card payments and consumer debt, yet OP wants to focus on a leased car which is written off on the taxes? Sounds to me like the OP does not truly know how the tax return works... and I believe all that money is coming back (as evidenced by a 9k tax return).

In fairness, there are probably some other issues going on here none of us know about... focus on the forest, not the trees.

Its not the car... Its not the consumer debt... its how both spouses treat each other, work together and handle money (together).

[ktmarvels]

I think I wasn't clear on the budget. we are not "financing" (or maybe we are and I haven't looked at it that way) as far as doctors go. We visit the dr, what the insurance doesn't cover, we pay cash. But I need to budget with each one of the doctors for the balances because I can't pay them big chunks of money.

It would be considered financing if you setting aside money and paying for these items AFTER you see the doctor and get the bill. It would be considered saving if you are setting aside this money in anticipation of future bills. Since it seems like many in your family have many chronic health conditions which require frequent trips to the doctor my advice is that once these bills are paid for continue saving that same amount. Put it in another checking account and have routine monthly transfers between your normal checking account and this new one. Consider that your Medical fund and only use it for medical payments.

[zetta]

I don't think the leased car is the problem
Car payments per year are just under $11,000 for the lease, and the tax return is $9,000... I do not think the lease is the problem

The leased car is not THE problem, but it is A problem. Even if the full amount of the lease is taken as a business expense and so coming back at tax time, it is reducing the income of the family by $1000/mo. If the lease were only $500, they'd have about $500 more in profit coming in each month.