Economic health of public universities

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

I want to look information on two things.

1.) the general economic health of several state governments---probably NE, IL, MT, MN, MA, WA.

2.) the likelihood that each of those states might be majorly changing economic commitments to its public universities in the next 6 years.

Any suggestions as to how/where to get started looking? I really only want a fairly shallow level of info (sad, but true).

[jIM_Ohio]

Think of the largest public universites in those states

NE- University of Nebraska (or would that be Nevada??)

IL-University of Illinois- make sure you find a school not in big 10

MT- I know there is a Univ of Montana...

MN- look up Univ of Minnesota, and look for another college not in Big 10

MA- Look up Boston Univ and one or two others

WA- look up univ of Wash and 1-2 other schools not in pac 10


Any school which has a large athletic program I would also look for a similar school which is not D1 in sports. For example I know U of Michigan has the wolverines which everyone sees on TV, but also other large campuses in Flint, Grand Rapids and other cities. My theory is that "everyone" wants to go to the big campus, but the smaller campuses might see things differently.

So pick a few schools
check tuition rates
check other fees (books, labs, other)
ask students at each school what they know (getting online access to students could help)
check subsidies from state gov'ts
check student: faculty ratios AND the number of incoming freshman/ total campus population. Look for trends- lower student population, lower ratio means faculty were let go (for example), higher volume of students with higher ratio means school is letting go of professors while more students are coming in.

I do not know how government funds state colleges. Went to a private school myself. My sister works in the admissions office of a SUNY school on Long Island. I could ask her what she knows.

I don't know how those states made the list, but I know NY colleges were having some issues.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

Guess I should clarify why I'm asking. DS has applications in to grad schools in these states. He wants to take into consideration things like whether schools might soon be pressured to trim faculty numbers, or to combine certain research programs into campuses where they had not before been. He thinks a bad state income could quickly affect him by making teaching assistantships and research fellowships disappear. It is just part of what he wants to weigh deciding which offer to accept.

I probably too quickly told him I'd look into it for him.

You know, the kind of thing that first comes to my mind is stuff like, "Well, I hear Illinois comes awfully close sometimes in being able to make payroll in this tax-short recession, and haven't I recently heard that their public employees pension system is barely keeping up? If tough choices have to be made won't university budgets be cut before, say, highway department payroll is cut?"

Hmm, maybe my most basic question is: Which states are in the worst shape?

Well, he'll be making campus visits soon and may be able to ask people at each school their impressions on this stuff.

[MonkeyMama]

I think that's a pretty tough question.

Our state (not mentioned) - well - it's budget is in the TOILET all around. California and all. BUT, I was looking up cost of public schools recently, and they really haven't gone up much at all since I graduated a decade ago. Sure, everyone is up in arms due to tuition increases this year, but the cost of college is still ridiculously low here. I don't think anyone here has enough brains to raise the cost of tuition. I suppose this is my way of saying - depends on the political climate and the vocal majority. We may go brankrupt, but don't touch our college tuition!

[jIM_Ohio]

Guess I should clarify why I'm asking. DS has applications in to grad schools in these states. He wants to take into consideration things like whether schools might soon be pressured to trim faculty numbers, or to combine certain research programs into campuses where they had not before been. He thinks a bad state income could quickly affect him by making teaching assistantships and research fellowships disappear. It is just part of what he wants to weigh deciding which offer to accept.

I probably too quickly told him I'd look into it for him.

You know, the kind of thing that first comes to my mind is stuff like, "Well, I hear Illinois comes awfully close sometimes in being able to make payroll in this tax-short recession, and haven't I recently heard that their public employees pension system is barely keeping up? If tough choices have to be made won't university budgets be cut before, say, highway department payroll is cut?"

Hmm, maybe my most basic question is: Which states are in the worst shape?

Well, he'll be making campus visits soon and may be able to ask people at each school their impressions on this stuff.

Grad school would be affected differently than undergrad for many reasons (IMO).

1) Undergrad is where subsidies kick in from gov't more; grad schools often have grants, research etc funded by people other than the state they represent (in the Ann Arbor/ U of M example I listed before, the grad department had several research grants from companies like Ford and Dow Chemical)

2) Undergrad depends on teaching assistants which are probably gov't or research subsidized. Graduate faculty depend on research grants to maintain their tenure.

3) The reputation of most schools is in their graduate programs. For example U of M Ann Arbor (not where I went) has an incredible Grad program- even people from Ohio State consider it, and that is saying something. Harvard- same deal, people pay all that money for their undergrad degree, but reality is the school's reputation is built on its law program, med program and grad program in general. I know U of Illinois has a decent grad program, but comparing their undergrad programs to say Univ of Buffalo or Miami U is 6 of one, half dozen of the other. But when you compare specific grad programs, its easy to see differences in the schools.

4) Depending on the field, graduate programs are usually really specialized into research. I am an engineer by degree, so I know about the Physics, Chem and various engineering departments of numerous schools. If I wanted to do a Masters specializing in Acoustics I should consider Carnegie Mellon, Penn State or possibly U of M Ann Arbor. If I wanted to do environmental engineering I should consider Corning, if I wanted to do underwater acoustics, I should consider George Mason U (I believe I have that one right).

Each of these schools secures research grants in their various fields. These grants usually tie money up over an extended period of time. For example when I worked for the Navy contractor, even when the fed gov't when on furlough, our work continued because all our money had been committed years and years before I was even hired.

Depending on the graduate program, I would expect it to be the same way. I only have a Bachelors, my school had a masters program (engineering), and most of the faculty there had companies which gave them grants, not gov't contributing.

However I bet with a medical, chemistry or Biology program, there would be more federal based research. Meaning cancer research is probably funded by government more than if sound is going to be too loud inside your car.

Depends on the field.

If he is looking into an MBA (U of Illinois had a decent HR/MBA program I think), I doubt an MBA program is tied to research funding. However if the field is technical/science related, I would ask where the funding comes from for research, how long the professor has been doing work with that company. Think of it like a job interview, and ask where the money comes from. If he was interviewing for a job, and was not sure how the company made money, how would he ask about where the money comes from?

[PetMom]

To get quick varied info used to be you would just call a reference librarian.

They would/should be able to help you find what resources would direct you to this information or give the info to you after they find it.

And maybe even a call to the librarian at each university to find out if they could tell you how to get this info.

This all depends though if you get a helpful librarian. Some will quickly say they do not have access or know how and not provide anything.

[elessar78]

Jim_Ohio, just curious why you say to avoid BigTen schools? Full disclosure: I attended one.

Don't worry I won't mindlessly defend it to the death. Just curious.

[jIM_Ohio]

Jim_Ohio, just curious why you say to avoid BigTen schools? Full disclosure: I attended one.

Don't worry I won't mindlessly defend it to the death. Just curious.

My point was the biggest school in Ohio, Michigan, Minnesota, etc... get funding from other things because of their affiliation with athletics. U of M Ann Arbor gets more funding than U of M Grand Rapids or U of M Flint because of the exposure of the Wolverines- so if investigating government funding for something as basic as professor salaries, make sure you look at the smaller campuses and not just the big ones.