I must buy a new (to me) Car.

**disneysteve** · 11-30-2009, 08:33 AM

Personally, I wouldn't do either, but of the 2 choices, I think you'd have to be insane to do the Impala. You are unemployed and have almost nothing in savings. You need something cheap and functional. If those are the only 2 options (and I don't know why they would be), take the Expedition.

**cicy33** · 11-30-2009, 08:42 AM

I agree. the expedition while more expensive on fuel is still your better option based upon where you live and your lifestyle. you can always do things to save fuel, combine trips, coast where possible, etc.

**amarowsky** · 11-30-2009, 09:09 AM

Also keep in mind I have no bills, I live at home. I do need a reliable car and I would really like to not have to worry for 3 additional years because if I buy the impala It would still be under warranty. I have never paid more than $1700 for a car, and I have always bought decent running vehicles, and though no immediate fault of my own they have all died within a year. I Don't think it is worth it anymore to buy a car that I am somewhat embarrassed to drive because they look aesthetically bad and have a lot of miles and in some cases are older than I am (two of my cars have been). The only way to avoid some of the problems I have found with cars that are cheap is if I was infact a mechanic my self and could identify and attack the problem in a proactive rather than Reactive manner. Plus also consider the opportunity cost I loose when I buy a vehicle that cost me less, but requires somewhat frequent repairs. If I buy another cheap car for $2000-4000 odd's are I will spend probably an average of 20-30 days out of the year owning it having it fixed, in addition to having a tow truck in front of my house at least 5 days a year. When I break it down, the cost of buying a cheaper car between the $4000 inital price and the estimated $500-800 a year maintenance and probably the one to two years it will last, it just seems only economical to buy a certified pre-owned car that is not only Guaranteed longer than the average shelf life of my car, but also 1/5 to 1/8 the miles of the car I would buy, thus giving it a pretty decent chance at lasting at least five years or so. So a 12000 vehicle will be fully depreciated in value over 5 years if its a 2007 considering three of them maintenance free, your looking at roughly 2400-2600 a year, which is just over 200 a month on average.

Now consider my Cheap cars I buy that last (for me less than a year) but we'll say that it lasts two years. Say I buy a 97 Intrepid for $3000 with 100k miles, In my experience it will require at least an additional $500 per year in maintenance because of its age and miles. You looking at $2250 per year, which comes out to 187.50 a month which is cheaper. Now look at the opportunity cost I loose, when I make $200-250 a day working, I will have to loose that car for 2-5 days (best case senario) and then I could possibly have to miss one day or work out of the 2-5 days missed. That already brings the cost of owning the car up $200 from missing that one day.

It really just seems like buying a certified pre owned car under warranty is a better deal. The only thing that is unconditionally worse is the Insurance which will be about an extra 300 a year. But also considering that I can get a better rate on my auto loan for a new 12k car than I could for a 4000k Older car.

**disneysteve** · 11-30-2009, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by amarowsky View Post

I do need a reliable car

If I buy another cheap car for $2000-4000 odd's are I will spend probably an average of 20-30 days out of the year owning it having it fixed, in addition to having a tow truck in front of my house at least 5 days a year.

But also considering that I can get a better rate on my auto loan for a new 12k car than I could for a 4000k Older car.

Forgive me for saying so but I'm hearing a lot of rationalization in this post.

I drive a 1998 Toyota Camry. It is very reliable. I've owned it since 1998. I've never had to call a tow truck for any reason. I most certainly do not lose 20-30 days with the car in for service, more like 4 days, which I think is pretty standard (oil changes, routine maintenance and repairs) and on those days, I get a loaner from the dealer. That car is probably worth about 3K today and I think anyone buying it would be getting a great deal (but I'm not selling

).

I realize you live in Michigan, but I'd suggest you start looking for a well-cared-for Toyota or Honda. You should certainly be able to find one in the under $5,000 price range that would fit your needs and your budget.

As for the loan, a better rate on a 12K loan still may cost you more in the long run than a higher rate on a 4K loan because of the amount being borrowed.

**amarowsky** · 11-30-2009, 10:05 AM

I guess this just comes from different experiences. The car I had before my S-10 was a Toyota Celica 1986. Only 80k miles, bought from the original owner, a nice older lady who lived across the street from my family members best friend. The car had a solid motor and ran well, then within a year the distributor, the entire break system including the lines, the slave cylinder for the clutch, and (possibly worst of all) the door handle on the outside of the car all failed me. Paid 500 for the car, just recently sold it because of all the problems.

Before that I had a 97 Pontiac Gran Prix, 180k miles but only 20k on a brand new engine, bought for 1700 from my mom's friend at work. It ran great, but my friend hit it about 2 months after purchase breaking the door, and hood. Then the cooling system totally failed causing a crack in the block En route to work.

97 Intrepid, bought from my mom for 1500. O2 Sensor failed and the car would only start randomly.

MOST recent 1000 s10 94. Paid 1000 from a good friends cousin. Knowingly had some suspension and break needs, I addressed them and had them fixed for around 400. Then my ignition module broke (piece on the side of the motor involved with starting the vehicle) and the Freeze plug fell out while En route to my friends, this caused the car to over heat even though the gauge read the car was WELL within it's require temperatures (later realized the sensor for temperature of the egine was not working properly anymore).

These are all problems that did not have any close correlation with how I drive, I always did routine maintenance and got oil changes, did not "Hot Dog" with my cars, and I use my brakes easy, and generally drive well.

I know this is bad examples but I generally have terrible luck with older cars, I try my best not to believe in luck but honestly It seems like this is my best alternative. I would never buy a new car, but I just can't rationalize buying another junker/cheap car. If I can go to a dealership and find a nice used car that is warrantied for under 6000 w/ under 60k miles then I will go for it. But also consider that small vehicles like toyotas, hondas, and sub compacts like escorts and aveo's are not to appealing to me because I am 6'4 230 pounds.

I suppose I do have to do some learning, research, and searching dealerships its just never having a car last over 1 year and never loosing a car to a easily avoidable reason like an accident is Really really discouraging, I just want a car that looks decent, doesnt make me resent it, and gets me from point a to point b. If it's a difference of 75 to 100 a month to go from an older cheaper car that Must be replaced within a few years to a newer preowned car that wont have to for 5 or 6 years, to me the money is well worth it.

BTW I am happy for you that you 98 has lasted llong with no major problems, it is inspiring to hear that and It helps to motivate me to find a cheaper older car. I just don't think that fate is in the cards for me considering my track record.

**amarowsky** · 11-30-2009, 12:47 PM

I just talked to my mom, and she's having my grandma talk to some of her friends to see if anyone is trying to sell a nice car used for a good deal to me. Maybe I owe buying an older car another chance again, I will take what you have said into serious consideration Steve, I do value your opinion.

LoL sorry it took me so long to get back to this, I was in-class posting these threads earlier and when Class was out it took me a while to get back on because I had to ride my Bicycle to school today! Except for it being cold I do love riding my bike and I'm glad because as the colder months start its harder to find good means of outside exercise.

**wincrasher** · 12-01-2009, 03:00 AM

I think you have a good grasp of the costs associated with buying a beater and a decent moderately used car.

With a beater, you never know when you'll get stranded and what your expenses will be, but you know you'll have them. If I was braving the Michigan winters, I'd definately want something reliable.

You being young, you have more time than money. I would then lean toward something you may have to accept the occasional inconvenience. I would definately not buy the Expedition. My sister has an '01 model - gets a whopping 9 mpg in town - and it's not 4x4. It has been fairly problem free thru 85k miles - but it groans and squeeks and generally looks pretty ratty.

I'd agree with Steve though, you should have lots of choices in the $5k range - used Hondas, Toyotas, etc. If you need to haul people in stuff, don't overlook a mini-van. It's a smart man's SUV.

**snafu** · 12-01-2009, 04:41 AM

One of the best kept auto secrets is the Hyundai Santa Fe if you seek an SUV for Michigan's winters. Even Phil Edmunds who writes the Lemon-Aid auto books drives one! If you seek a cheap, reliable, car, a 2 y/o Sonata runs well, keeps insurance costs down, and looks ok. The downside is there is no after sale market for used Hyundai vehicles. I'd never buy a new car as the depreciation is even more wicked now than it was 2 years ago.

Don't talk yourself into buying more car than you can afford for aesthetics

**LuxLiving** · 12-01-2009, 05:57 AM

Just posted about this one yesterday. Know you aren't looking at new cars, but there could be some valid clues here on where to look. For sure, I'd be heading over to the Vincentric place mentioned in the article:

Link: Cheapest Cars to Own: Lux Living Frugalis

Vincentric > Home

Here's a bit I found there on a 2009 compact coupe -- much of these COSTS get lost when we are considering buying as we generally only look at PRICE.

Cost Item

5 Year Total

Depreciation:
$ 15393
Fees & Taxes:
1208
Finance:
4084
Fuel:
8160
Insurance:
4580
Maintenance:
2164
Opportunity Cost:
1719
Repairs:
826
Totals
$ 38134

**amarowsky** · 12-01-2009, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by LuxLiving View Post

Just posted about this one yesterday. Know you aren't looking at new cars, but there could be some valid clues here on where to look. For sure, I'd be heading over to the Vincentric place mentioned in the article:

Link: Cheapest Cars to Own: Lux Living Frugalis

Vincentric > Home

$ 38134

Hey thanks a ton for that post, I donated points to help show my appreciation. I looked at that top 15 list and the most intriguing cars on there to me where the Nissan Sentra, Ford Focus, Toyota Tacoma, Toyota Corolla, and the Chevy Cobalt.

Recently I have been looking at a lot of impala's because it's the most comfortable full size Chevy Sedan, and because of how tall and big I am I prefer not to have to always "squeeze" into cars.

The Corolla, Sentra, and Focus are probably the most appealing and roomy of those cars, and I'm sure I can find a solid deal on one of those. One of my largest conflicts is how I do like trucks, and that Tacoma boasts high resale value and still has good fuel economy (according to their data) and the capability of a truck. The other conflict is how despite the cobalt being small, it says it has the absolute Lowest repair cost of all those cars on that list.

Either way thank you guys/gals so far for all your information! Ill keep you posted on what decision I make and the feedback from my purchase after it happens.

And hey if you find any add's or cars for sale you want to suggest preferably in the 48154 Livonia, MI (detroit metro) area, send me a link! I really value a lot of the wisdom this wonderful forum has to offer!

**disneysteve** · 12-01-2009, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by amarowsky View Post

And hey if you find any add's or cars for sale you want to suggest preferably in the 48154 Livonia, MI (detroit metro) area, send me a link! I really value a lot of the wisdom this wonderful forum has to offer!

I think we sometimes fail to realize the geographic differences. I just searched AutoTrader.com. When I plugged in your zip and searched for Toyota sedans 2000-present under 5K within 25 miles, I got a few cars, all with over 130,000 miles. When I did the same search for my zip, I got 3 times as many cars with as little as 84,000 miles. So buying a used Toyota is apparently much easier here in NJ. You may need to expand the search to 50 miles or more from home.

**amarowsky** · 12-01-2009, 01:25 PM

Albany-2006-Chevrolet-Cobalt

pretty solid deal, I think thats just about the cheapest Ive seen for the mileage and year.

**lovcom** · 12-01-2009, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by amarowsky View Post

Well I was driving a 1994 S10 truck that I bought earlier this year, approx February for $1000.00, I also put about $800.00 total into the truck since I bought it, and it just died on me. When I say died it mean the truck now requires almost another $500(absolute minimum) to $1000 to repair it. The truck was running fine, it was just bad luck that a plug broke and the sensor that monitored it was not working properly so it manifested in the worst way. Not to digress, but the truck is in bad condition (body wise) banged up back bumper, some rust, and banged up not properly working door, so I don't think it's worth anymore to fix it.

What I am asking as far as your incite is what sounds like a better idea. Right now I have two main choices I have been thinking of for a new car.

2006-08 Chevy Impala, In Michigan I can find one of these for right around 10-13K with under 20K miles, because they are trying to sell them at several dealerships near me. Good gas mileage, respectable car, with warranty of 5 yrs/100k miles.

Or-

Really well taken care of 2000 Ford Expedition, not sure on miles but my friend/mechanic tells me the owner took care of it meticulously and it's only 4,000 dollars. I really like expeditions, but I know they have bad Gas mileage because of their size. I do like having a truck for Detroit winter months, and I go on several vacations a year where we always drive, and usually bring 5-8 people with me who all could fit in the Expedition.

I'm laid off right now, but I'm suppose to be back to work in two months or so, when I do it's a regular 40 miles (to and from) for work. I have no Debt, and only $2000.00 in the bank and maybe 2500 in stocks that is available to me. I earn about $400 every two weeks on unemployment and From my Job I work two days a week I get about $200 a week.

Any suggestions about what would be better?
I do have great credit so I can get a loan and at a great %apr

Impala? Expedition? What are you thinking, man?!? Does gas sell for $1/gal where you live or something?

Lets get real, sir....get a used Honda Fit, or Honda Civic, or Toyota Yaris, or Toyota Corolla...these really do get good gas milage (unlike the Impala), and you can get a few year old model in good condition for under $10,000.

I would suggest you change your mindset, forget the V8's, the large cars...get real in a Fit or Yaris. The money have and coming to you, conserve as much of it as you can.

For your yearly road trip vacations just rent a full size SUV...

**BillK** · 12-01-2009, 06:57 PM

Hi,

We have a free car cost comparison calculator that you should consider trying out at our site found in our signature. It not only take the purchase cost into consideration but also mileage, gas prices, repair maintenance, financing and more.

There are many factors that need to be considered to get a clear financial picture of what the real cost is between two vehicles.

Good Luck!

I must buy a new (to me) Car.